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The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

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Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#191

Post by ineptech »

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #140
ineptech wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Engaged" and "disengaged" are terms of art in management which refer to whether someone is totally checked out or not. Someone who spends most of the day on Facebook is "disengaged", even if they're very competent and get more done in an hour than their teammates do in eight. Someone who basically takes their job seriously and puts in a reasonable effort is "engaged", even if they're a total idiot with net negative…

And they're apparently pretty approximate, if being 'disengaged' means that you're only 18% less productive than your 'engaged' coworkers. And then they provide the striking statistic that it will cost an employer up to 2X the annual salary of the 'disengaged' worker to replace them - that's equivalent to ten years of their not working hard, doesn't seem worth it, somehow.

Totally agree, the numbers in this article strike me as ranging from "suspect" to "bullshit". I should've clarified that I was defining how I and (I think) other real managers use those terms.

For example, my guess would be that the lost value from a disengaged employee is closer to 100% of their salary than 18%, because of how they drag the rest of the team down by generating bugs, derailing conversations, needing constant help to un-fuck their local env, etc.

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#192

Post by crftr »

k4ch0w wrote: post #33
mindvirus wrote: post #8

I wonder how much it has to do with vacations. Rationally I know I need a vacation, but I don't know what I'd do - and so I've taken long weekends here and there but never two weeks disconnected.

I stayed home and unplugged all work devices. I would just focus on your hobbies and improving your living situation or see your friends (Depending on where you live I know this can be hard for covid reasons). I took two weeks and I feel a lot better. Sometimes you just need to step away from the grind.

> Sometimes you just need to step away from the grind.

Was your work routed to someone else during your time off?

I would truly like to step away and relax. But the last time I tried to step away, I couldn't stop ruminating over all the unfinished work in my queue. My hunch is that it's not possible to truly relax unless someone else can temporarily step-in for the vacationer. Otherwise, on return, we're just greeted with an even-larger pile of work.

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#193

Post by danuker »

clomond wrote: post #190
jjtheblunt wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

simple solution == flat-as-possible org structure?

But once you make a formal structure flat enough, informal structures can start to solidify and dominate (think High School). I always try to keep this in mind, Valve which famously has a completely flat structure, ended up turning into an environment where things like popularity and ability to dispense resources defined the practiced org structure. Be careful what you wish for.

Perhaps "popularity and ability to dispense resources" is better than just "ability to dispense resources" (i.e. traditional hierarchy).

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#194

Post by rowanG077 »

danuker wrote: post #193
clomond wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But once you make a formal structure flat enough, informal structures can start to solidify and dominate (think High School). I always try to keep this in mind, Valve which famously has a completely flat structure, ended up turning into an environment where things like popularity and ability to dispense resources defined the practiced org structure. Be careful what you wish for.

Perhaps "popularity and ability to dispense resources" is better than just "ability to dispense resources" (i.e. traditional hierarchy).

Did you go to High School with the rampant bullying? Popularity is not linked at all with personality traits that make someone a good leader afaik. Traditional hierarchy at least tries to keep people who are a competent in power.

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#195

Post by ClumsyPilot »

rowanG077 wrote: post #194
danuker wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps "popularity and ability to dispense resources" is better than just "ability to dispense resources" (i.e. traditional hierarchy).

Did you go to High School with the rampant bullying? Popularity is not linked at all with personality traits that make someone a good leader afaik. Traditional hierarchy at least tries to keep people who are a competent in power.

"Did you go to High School with the rampant bullying"

Do adults have judgement of pre-pubernecent 14 year olds? I mean, maybe some do, but...

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#196

Post by Izkata »

tripa wrote: post #173
throwaway75787 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surveys set up by the likes of "Great Place to Work" and similar are nothing but HR and PR fluff. It's set up to be spinned and covered up.

I've said it before and I'd say it again with or without a throwaway: being certified “Great Place to Work” doesn't mean we're a good work environment, merely that we allocated >1 FTE to winning the contest.

FTE?

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#197

Post by ClumsyPilot »

valesco wrote: post #159
cratermoon wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> during the interview process I think assuming management is greedy and selfish until proven otherwise is a good way to approach interviewing. Negotiating compensation will give lots of clues. Ask for more money, or a different TC structure and see what happens. For comparison, ask for something that doesn't cost anything.

What if the interviewer is looking for a true teammate and is put off by your attitude, and thinks you are greedy and selfish, a mercenary? You lose that good job with a test that lumps together the best and the worst actors.

'a true teammate and is put off by your attitude, and thinks you are greedy'

True teammates are cool, but is he prepared to feed my family and adopt my children in case I get killed by a bus?

What is the extent of mutual sacrafice 'true teammates' are gonna do for each other? Or is it a manipulative boss getting you to sacrafice family for the sake of the business? Or is is a naive idiot getting both of you to sacrafice for the business?

Yoy responsibility is to family and yourself first. Jobs come and go.

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#198

Post by selestify »

valesco wrote: post #159
cratermoon wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> during the interview process I think assuming management is greedy and selfish until proven otherwise is a good way to approach interviewing. Negotiating compensation will give lots of clues. Ask for more money, or a different TC structure and see what happens. For comparison, ask for something that doesn't cost anything.

What if the interviewer is looking for a true teammate and is put off by your attitude, and thinks you are greedy and selfish, a mercenary? You lose that good job with a test that lumps together the best and the worst actors.

Most of us are here at our jobs because we need to earn a living, and not because we just love scrum so much that we'd do it even if we had to do it for free.

Of course you'd want to maximize your pay. Any coworker who drinks the Koolaid and doesn't understand that isn't a coworker I'd want to be with.

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#199

Post by tripa »

Izkata wrote: post #196
tripa wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said it before and I'd say it again with or without a throwaway: being certified “Great Place to Work” doesn't mean we're a good work environment, merely that we allocated >1 FTE to winning the contest.

FTE?

Full-Time Employee

Re: The 'Great Resignation' is really the 'Great Discontent'

#200

Post by cratermoon »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #174
ithkuil wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think GP's point is precisely that once you normalize something that used to be a special case requiring extra compensation, it's hard to make the case that you need to get paid extra for your extra work, since it's, well, no longer extra?

It depends how the labor supply and demand curves are moving. The case for extra compensation is that you will stop working there if you do not get extra compensation.

People are still working the same retail jobs they did in the days before 24/7 expectations and, after taking into account inflation, making about the same amount of money. https://bitworking.org/news/2008/01/the-free-market-fairy/
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