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JPL's Plan for the Next Mars Helicopter

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Re: JPL's Plan for the Next Mars Helicopter

#31

Post by nharada »

perihelions wrote: post #15
srcmap wrote: post #3

Wonder if it is practical to design Helicopter with nuclear battery similar to the rover....

That'd be difficult in Mars' atmosphere -- but the planned *Titan* helicopter will actually be RTG powered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfly_(spacecraft)#Design_... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18947350 ( "NASA May Decide This Year to Land a Drone on Saturn's Moon Titan" ) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20337042 ( "A technical look at the Dragonfly Titan mission" ) > "Flight on Titan is aerodynam…

Awh, I thought that meant infinite flight time, but it appears instead it carries the RTG along to recharge Li-ion batteries at night.

Re: JPL's Plan for the Next Mars Helicopter

#32

Post by dogma1138 »

jvanderbot wrote: post #19
dogma1138 wrote: post #14

Wouldn’t an airship be a more viable option for a long term mission on Mars?

The atmo is very thin, making the balloon huge relative to the gondola. Some people are quite enthused about it anyway. Including myself. http://www.gaerospace.com/space-exploration/planetary-aerobo... With a thick atmo, plenty of sun, and not too much heat / cold in the upper layers. Venus is a _great_ place for balloons. https://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/venus-20070...

I was thinking about a rigid body vacuum airship, landing would be easy because all you need to do is lose the vacuum which can be done with a valve and cost no power.

Taking off again can be done over days so you can power it with solar panels if you can’t fit an RTG.

I honestly don’t think winds would be that much of an issue they won’t be strong enough to structurally damage the airship they’ll blow it off sure but not break it apart, and crashing into things isn’t as much of a risk at any reasonable altitudes no buildings no trees, sure there are cliffs and mountains but that can be solved with altitude.

Re: JPL's Plan for the Next Mars Helicopter

#33

Post by dogma1138 »

Robotbeat wrote: post #26
dogma1138 wrote: post #14

Wouldn’t an airship be a more viable option for a long term mission on Mars?

No because you get blown about by the winds. That has led to many destroyed zeppelins on Earth. Can’t afford that on Mars. No ground crew to secure it.

That destroyed zeppelins because there are things they can crash into especially during take off and landing and the winds are strong enough to rip them apart it’s not true for Mars.

The winds are to weak because of the thin atmosphere and there aren’t that many things to crash into.

Re: JPL's Plan for the Next Mars Helicopter

#35

Post by verytrivial »

BotJunkie wrote: post #25
verytrivial wrote: post #23

Why do so many website disable zoom? Why?!

If you're looking for a better resolution version of the concept image, as far as I know there isn't one. The original is here, and it's not great: https://www-robotics.jpl.nasa.gov/tasks/showBrowseImage.cfm?...

I just wanted to see the folding concept at the given resolution, just bigger, like God and my pinch gesture intended. No cigar.

Opening the image in another tab then zooming then I suddenly wonder why on Earth this is required. I know it's not malice, but there must millions of people with sub 20:20 vision who don't want to enable the screen magnifier when pinch is ALREADY A THING.

Re: JPL's Plan for the Next Mars Helicopter

#36

Post by Sharlin »

nharada wrote: post #31
perihelions wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That'd be difficult in Mars' atmosphere -- but the planned *Titan* helicopter will actually be RTG powered: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonfly_(spacecraft)#Design_... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18947350 ( "NASA May Decide This Year to Land a Drone on Saturn's Moon Titan" ) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20337042 ( "A technical look at the Dragonfly Titan mission" ) > "Flight on Titan is aerodynam…

Awh, I thought that meant infinite flight time, but it appears instead it carries the RTG along to recharge Li-ion batteries at night.

Yeah, unfortunately power density is not exactly where RTGs shine.

Re: JPL's Plan for the Next Mars Helicopter

#37

Post by barbegal »

For me, the value of ingenuity has not been the fact that it flies but rather that is designed to be operated in a far more risky way than a traditional rover. A mission that consisted solely of a single larger helicopter would be far more risk averse. It would travel shorter distances, move slower and have so much redundancy built in that there is likely to be little mass dedicated to the scientific instruments.

Re: JPL's Plan for the Next Mars Helicopter

#38

Post by Robotbeat »

dogma1138 wrote: post #33
Robotbeat wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No because you get blown about by the winds. That has led to many destroyed zeppelins on Earth. Can’t afford that on Mars. No ground crew to secure it.

That destroyed zeppelins because there are things they can crash into especially during take off and landing and the winds are strong enough to rip them apart it’s not true for Mars. The winds are to weak because of the thin atmosphere and there aren’t that many things to crash into.

But the zeppelin must be much larger for the same mass (and remember buoyancy is ALSO lower in Mars’ gravity).

Re: JPL's Plan for the Next Mars Helicopter

#39

Post by [deleted] »

Robotbeat wrote: post #38
dogma1138 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That destroyed zeppelins because there are things they can crash into especially during take off and landing and the winds are strong enough to rip them apart it’s not true for Mars. The winds are to weak because of the thin atmosphere and there aren’t that many things to crash into.

But the zeppelin must be much larger for the same mass (and remember buoyancy is ALSO lower in Mars’ gravity).

[deleted]

Re: JPL's Plan for the Next Mars Helicopter

#40

Post by dogma1138 »

Robotbeat wrote: post #38
dogma1138 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That destroyed zeppelins because there are things they can crash into especially during take off and landing and the winds are strong enough to rip them apart it’s not true for Mars. The winds are to weak because of the thin atmosphere and there aren’t that many things to crash into.

But the zeppelin must be much larger for the same mass (and remember buoyancy is ALSO lower in Mars’ gravity).

Same holds true for a helicopter… before ingenuity no one knew if a helicopter could even fly on Mars.
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