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Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech [OSCON Data 2011]

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Re: Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech [OSCON Data 2011]

#81

Let's stop focusing on the fact that he quit. And focus on WHY he quit. I'm sure we all can relate with what he's saying at some level. He's talking about tackling hard problems and not just low hanging fruit that might (emphasis on might) make a buck. And most of all he's leading by example. I haven't seen this much bravado from anyone in our industry in a long time.

While I applaud his motives for change, we should also focus on HOW he quit, too. IMHO, his boss deserves the professional courtesy of being told personally (be it face to face, or by letter of resignation), rather than finding out via a YouTube clip...

I'm trying to put myself in his boss's shoes. I think I would only be upset if I took it personally.

Re: Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech [OSCON Data 2011]

#82
post #42

So I'm not really an ask me anything type guy, but I work on a bioinformatics team at an academic cancer research center. We have genomic sequencers and a software stack running 24/7/365 plus your normal collection of IT and small dev projects here. If you have questions about what it's like to be a hacker in this type of environment, post them here and I'll share what my experience is like. BTW, I completely wish I…

I worked at a bioinformatics co-op job for 8 months about 4 years ago. I had fun, but my main impression was that the field is a major clusterf*ck of databases and data management. I think you could take this list as evidence for that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bioinformatics_workflow_managem...

Re: Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech [OSCON Data 2011]

#83
post #42

So I'm not really an ask me anything type guy, but I work on a bioinformatics team at an academic cancer research center. We have genomic sequencers and a software stack running 24/7/365 plus your normal collection of IT and small dev projects here. If you have questions about what it's like to be a hacker in this type of environment, post them here and I'll share what my experience is like. BTW, I completely wish I…

How would you describe the attention to craftsmanship of software in scientific computing? The most illuminating thing about Climategate to me was the state of the software: is this kind of code widespread? Is there interest in improvement? If I went to work for a research team and suggested pairing, code reviews, version control, continuous integration, or other accepted good practices from my experience in software development how would that be received?

Also, the dilemma in my mind is whether I can stand going back to grad school in my late 20s for a career I don't really know much about. I'm not sure if you can speak to that experience, but would you say it's been rewarding?

Re: Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech [OSCON Data 2011]

#84

Am I the only one that fails to be inspired by this? I think I'm not inspired because it's something I've already thought about. We've always had the option to go make money, or go try to fix the world... And whatever that brings us. I am very clear on my chances of making big changes to the world: Almost nil. Instead, I decided long ago that I'd do my best to make money and improve my own life. I'm not saying I don'…

This is cynical past the point of healthy. There are plenty of sectors that would be revolutionized if smart people focused their attention on them. You don't have to cure cancer; that's absurdly binary and based on fame. You can do less sensational things like invent a device that improves patients' lives using modern robotics and sensors. You can design a system for Alzheimer's patients that incorporates your knowl…

In addition, even "cat picture project" technology can sometimes be used to implement "world changing" technology. I think "do what you love doing and always challenge yourself" still generally applies here.

Re: Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech [OSCON Data 2011]

#85
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This video is purposely being kept off the front page. Number 8 has 7 points, 1 hour ago. This has 20 points for the same time frame and is now 40 and dropping.

There is definitely something weird going on. 7. MS-DOS is 30 years old today (extremetech.com) 44 points by ukdm 3 hours ago | flag | 11 comments 8. Bring your half-baked idea to the Half-Bakery (halfbakery.com) 54 points by rfreytag 4 hours ago | flag | 11 comments And this... 22. Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech [OSCON Data 2011] (youtube.com) 162 points by kodisha 3 hours ago | flag | 35 comme…

It may be that managers don't want their employees seeing this and being inspired to quit to work on more meaningful stuff -- it would be like a run on the banks in the tech world.

Re: Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech [OSCON Data 2011]

#86
post #64
post #42

So I'm not really an ask me anything type guy, but I work on a bioinformatics team at an academic cancer research center. We have genomic sequencers and a software stack running 24/7/365 plus your normal collection of IT and small dev projects here. If you have questions about what it's like to be a hacker in this type of environment, post them here and I'll share what my experience is like. BTW, I completely wish I…

I guess my biggest question is: in what way can programmers outside that specific discipline pitch in and help out? Are there relevant open source projects that could benefit from someone with a lot of programming experience and a slightly-better-than-layman science background?

There is a new field of extracting wiring diagrams from brains at the level of individual neurons. This is what I work on.

http://openconnectomeproject.org has some introductory material. (This is not my site, it is by some people at JHU who picked up our data set and are working on it.) Massive image data sets, lots of need to develop workflow. You can browse the image data here: http://openconnectomeproject.org/catmaid/?pid=4&zp=40635...

Concretely, look at the plugins being developed by the Fiji project and pitch in, especially on the electron-microscopy-centric plugins: http://pacific.mpi-cbg.de/wiki/index.php/Category:Plugins

edit: also think about contributing to the CATMAID project, which is the software serving the browsable data set above, and perhaps will someday enable crowd-sourced markup: http://fly.mpi-cbg.de/~saalfeld/catmaid/

Re: Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech [OSCON Data 2011]

#87
post #67
post #42

So I'm not really an ask me anything type guy, but I work on a bioinformatics team at an academic cancer research center. We have genomic sequencers and a software stack running 24/7/365 plus your normal collection of IT and small dev projects here. If you have questions about what it's like to be a hacker in this type of environment, post them here and I'll share what my experience is like. BTW, I completely wish I…

I'm a CS guy (programmer with a heavy interest in Biology) going to get a Master's in Computational Biology (from CMU). What's it like to be a hacker in that sort of environment? :P Really, anything you could tell me about what you do now, the state of the industry, and your experience would be really valuable.

This is my first bioinformatics job and my first return to an academic environment since finishing a MS in CS and doing the standard industry thing. This group is mostly a core services group rather than a pure research support group.

I came in to do traditional data warehouse work, loading data from separate databases into one spot to make reports across those different datasets easier. That's most of my days now - simple data integration and reporting. Oddly enough, we are an Oracle shop because our university has a site license. But I do a little Ruby/Rails/Sinatra for a project that is reporting + some app-like enhancements. Tons of SQL for manipulating data, but it is usually simple SQL, especially compared to stuff I wrote previously in a financial corp.

A significant amount of my day is ferreting requirements out of users. I wish I was better at this.

There is a much larger amount of grunt work happening in the data management space than I expected. We deal with a huge amount of protected health information (PHI), which can be frustrating since you're usually working around data policies that require somewhat careful interpretation. Obviously, the genomic datasets are huge, so dealing with storage and clusters for data processing is often a discussion point around here.

It is an academic/research place, so it is a little more relaxed than industry. Expectations (for software) are a little low - we're talking about users who have, for the most part, kept data in spreadsheets or little Access style databases for years. And they often haven't had the budget to hire dedicated software guys, so sometimes tools are suffering from bit-rot.

Good hackers seem to be appreciated. It is below your standard industry salary, but not terribly so. I try to avoid being sucked into low-value work since "the reward for work well-done is more work."

Just like grad school, if you want to work on a specific topic or research area, make sure you get a job in a group doing that work. Once you're established, it seems easy to get some space to do some exploratory hacking.

Re: Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech [OSCON Data 2011]

#89
post #83
post #42

So I'm not really an ask me anything type guy, but I work on a bioinformatics team at an academic cancer research center. We have genomic sequencers and a software stack running 24/7/365 plus your normal collection of IT and small dev projects here. If you have questions about what it's like to be a hacker in this type of environment, post them here and I'll share what my experience is like. BTW, I completely wish I…

How would you describe the attention to craftsmanship of software in scientific computing? The most illuminating thing about Climategate to me was the state of the software: is this kind of code widespread? Is there interest in improvement? If I went to work for a research team and suggested pairing, code reviews, version control, continuous integration, or other accepted good practices from my experience in software…

I haven't had much luck getting people on my team interested in code reviews. The day I started we put a ton of stuff in version control though.

In general, you should interview a team when you're trying to get a job and trust your gut on how much those practices you mention will be accepted. It's a little harder here, because for years the model was assign a dev to a project and that dev will own the entire project from start to finish. We still don't do a great job working as a team.

Craftmanship can take a back-seat to schedule. Lots of operational stuff (for grants and administrative purposes) gets pushed off to the last minute. And for research, the focus here is on the results much less than the process. The researchers don't care if you do it in a bash shell script or a clojure jewel as long as it's done - kind of like a startup. So if you can do it fast in a maintainable and cool way, all the better.

We are suffering the effects right now of some bad QC code. A non-insignificant amount of data had to be re-analyzed because of some code bugs. I would say interest is currently much higher in improvement. :-)

I did grad school (MS in CS), went to industry, and then came back. Returning was mainly lucky timing and personal network effects. But I was late 20's when I did grad school, so we're not too different. It was completely worth it for me.

Some PIs are like typical academics - they have MD/PhD (usually both) and can be somewhat dictatorial. But some are great and want your thoughts and expertise.

You could consider simply getting a job doing typical IT work in an organization like this. You're probably right that eventually you'll want some grad school (we are walking around in credential heaven here), but you could always try it out first.

Re: Steve Yegge quits Google in the middle of his speech [OSCON Data 2011]

#90
I've had multiple math professors tell me to study as much math as I can while I'm young, because once you're over 30 it's a lot harder to learn math. I'm in my 20's so I'm not sure if this is true.

It also seems to me that the math you would learn in an O'Reilly book isn't in depth enough to contribute to research.

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