Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Does this medieval fresco show a hallucinogenic mushroom in the Garden of Eden?

atlasobscura.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 110 posts

Re: Does this medieval fresco show a hallucinogenic mushroom in the Garden of Eden?

#41

Post by iammisc »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #39
iammisc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Catholicism has no concept of the elect, at least not in the way you describe it.

It’s entirely possible for people who call themselves Catholic to have beliefs that are not in accordance with official dogma. And Catholic dogma is not a static thing, either, though some pretend it is.

It absolutely is, but the idea he put forth... that the elect (presumably meaning those who are getting into heaven) are deserving of secret knowledge is not really something that anyone can say ever existed in the church. They had a whole separation and heresy to address that.

Re: Does this medieval fresco show a hallucinogenic mushroom in the Garden of Eden?

#42

Post by Talanes »

iammisc wrote: post #17
cratermoon wrote: post #10

There are several problems with this article. To start with, it mixes up the Tree of Life[1] and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil[2]. Second, the Genesis story is Jewish, and predates Christianity by at least five if not ten centuries. And most importantly, early Christians were Jews first. Post-Pauline times, pagan or Gentiles in the Roman empire did join the growing movement that was soon to be called Christi…

> cf Easter, Christmas There is no evidence of roman paganism being the origin of either holiday. Easter and Christmas were celebrated before the romanization of Christianity. The only thing that was added were pagan symbology to the existing feast days, which is typical, as the church is happy to incorporate pagan traditions. The issue here is that in America we see a myopic view of Christianity from Europe. We note…

It also comes down to a matter of linguistics. English uniquely changed the name of the holiday to match up with local celebrations. If you're not thinking to hard about it, it's very easy to go from "Easter is named after a forgotten pagan goddess" to "The entire Easter tradition is stolen from old pagan rituals."

Re: Does this medieval fresco show a hallucinogenic mushroom in the Garden of Eden?

#43

Post by andrewtbham »

It's possible that manna from heaven and the bread at communion are mushrooms. that many of the experiences seem to by psychadelic: the burning bush, the transfiguration, etc. And that it was all gotten rid of during the black death.

https://psychedelictimes.com/the-secret-psychedelic-mushroom...

Re: Does this medieval fresco show a hallucinogenic mushroom in the Garden of Eden?

#44

Post by iammisc »

Talanes wrote: post #42
iammisc wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cf Easter, Christmas There is no evidence of roman paganism being the origin of either holiday. Easter and Christmas were celebrated before the romanization of Christianity. The only thing that was added were pagan symbology to the existing feast days, which is typical, as the church is happy to incorporate pagan traditions. The issue here is that in America we see a myopic view of Christianity from Europe. We note…

It also comes down to a matter of linguistics. English uniquely changed the name of the holiday to match up with local celebrations. If you're not thinking to hard about it, it's very easy to go from "Easter is named after a forgotten pagan goddess" to "The entire Easter tradition is stolen from old pagan rituals."

That's right. In most of the world, easter is referred to as some derivative of 'Paschal', which is the adjectival form of Easter in English.

For example,

French: Paques Spanish: Pascua Romanian: Pasti Russian: пасха (Paskha) Chinese: fùhuójié (resurrection festival) Danish: paske

Only the german languages adopted a Germanic goddess name due to the coincidental timing.

Re: Does this medieval fresco show a hallucinogenic mushroom in the Garden of Eden?

#45

Post by amanaplanacanal »

iammisc wrote: post #41
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s entirely possible for people who call themselves Catholic to have beliefs that are not in accordance with official dogma. And Catholic dogma is not a static thing, either, though some pretend it is.

It absolutely is, but the idea he put forth... that the elect (presumably meaning those who are getting into heaven) are deserving of secret knowledge is not really something that anyone can say ever existed in the church. They had a whole separation and heresy to address that.

Which “he” do you mean here?

Re: Does this medieval fresco show a hallucinogenic mushroom in the Garden of Eden?

#46

Post by cratermoon »

xyzelement wrote: post #40
piptastic wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From your linked source on the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil: Alternatively, some scholars have argued that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is just another name for the tree of life.

There are probably "some scholars" that have argued for just about anything, but certainly the majority of knowledge on these treats them as different topics.

Exactly. Some "scholars" say that Genesis, along with the other four books of the pentateuch, was literally written by Moses and recounts actual facts as they happened. Wikipedia's NPOV utterly fails on topics like faith and belief.

Re: Does this medieval fresco show a hallucinogenic mushroom in the Garden of Eden?

#47

Post by cratermoon »

iammisc wrote: post #17
cratermoon wrote: post #10

There are several problems with this article. To start with, it mixes up the Tree of Life[1] and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil[2]. Second, the Genesis story is Jewish, and predates Christianity by at least five if not ten centuries. And most importantly, early Christians were Jews first. Post-Pauline times, pagan or Gentiles in the Roman empire did join the growing movement that was soon to be called Christi…

> cf Easter, Christmas There is no evidence of roman paganism being the origin of either holiday. Easter and Christmas were celebrated before the romanization of Christianity. The only thing that was added were pagan symbology to the existing feast days, which is typical, as the church is happy to incorporate pagan traditions. The issue here is that in America we see a myopic view of Christianity from Europe. We note…

> The only thing that was added were pagan symbology to the existing feast days, which is typical

Yes, that's exactly what I said: papered over.

Re: Does this medieval fresco show a hallucinogenic mushroom in the Garden of Eden?

#49

Post by FridayoLeary »

pmoriarty wrote: post #20
cratermoon wrote: post #10

There are several problems with this article. To start with, it mixes up the Tree of Life[1] and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil[2]. Second, the Genesis story is Jewish, and predates Christianity by at least five if not ten centuries. And most importantly, early Christians were Jews first. Post-Pauline times, pagan or Gentiles in the Roman empire did join the growing movement that was soon to be called Christi…

"the Genesis story is Jewish, and predates Christianity by at least five if not ten centuries" But the fresco the article is about is from the 13th Century. Christians at that time or even earlier might have re-interpreted the Genesis story in light of psychedelic experiences. However, on the subject of psychedelic use in early Judaism, there is an interesting article titled "Strange Fires Weird Smokes and Psychoacti…

But incense was only burned in the temple, with no one around to enjoy it, so what's your point exactly?

Re: Does this medieval fresco show a hallucinogenic mushroom in the Garden of Eden?

#50

Post by cratermoon »

pmoriarty wrote: post #20
cratermoon wrote: post #10

There are several problems with this article. To start with, it mixes up the Tree of Life[1] and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil[2]. Second, the Genesis story is Jewish, and predates Christianity by at least five if not ten centuries. And most importantly, early Christians were Jews first. Post-Pauline times, pagan or Gentiles in the Roman empire did join the growing movement that was soon to be called Christi…

"the Genesis story is Jewish, and predates Christianity by at least five if not ten centuries" But the fresco the article is about is from the 13th Century. Christians at that time or even earlier might have re-interpreted the Genesis story in light of psychedelic experiences. However, on the subject of psychedelic use in early Judaism, there is an interesting article titled "Strange Fires Weird Smokes and Psychoacti…

I saw a Ron Howard movie that starred Tom Hanks which told me the Holy Grail is really a metaphor for the descendants of Jesus and Mary Magdalene. I read a book by Immanuel Velikovsky that told me that around the 15th century BC, the planet Venus was ejected from Jupiter as a comet or comet-like object and passed near Earth. Venus is made of up hydrocarbons which spewed out and fell to earth, turned to carbohydrates and fell as manna, then Venus on a later flyby caused the earth to stop turning (and the sun to appear to stand still) and the walls of Jericho to fall. Somehow, not only did Joshua and his armies not get knocked flat on their asses when the earth stopped, but the entire earth did not become magma as the energy of rotation turned to heat.

People have been speculating about the "science" of the bible since the scientific method was a thing, and there's a shitload of absolute insane woo.

Post reply on HN