Google employees who work from home could lose money • Hacker News Board

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#511

Post by lostcolony » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

jollybean wrote: post #485

lostcolony wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm not saying strategic vs tactical is a binary; it's a spectrum. And where to fall on it is hard; I think we're in agreement here. But, you mention you've been overridden by bad executive fiat on occasion, and also made forays where you shouldn't have because you didn't have the bigger picture. The 'right' course of action to address both of those as your manager would be to make sure you understand the bigger p…

The example I gave involved information persistence, lawyers and and government national security apparatus i.e. way above my pay grade. So many issues transcend the narrow scope of some product, which is why 'the effect' as you say, generally goes pretty far, meaning, executive leadership input which is essentially necessary. It's also a good example of how circumstances can create existential scenarios that have no…

"The example I gave involved information persistence, lawyers and and government national security apparatus i.e. way above my pay grade."

My reply still stands. "Hey soandso, we need to change our persistence strategy for this information due to regulatory compliance" "Uh, okay. What are the specifics?" "I'm not entirely sure; I've already reached out to soandso in legal/whatever to let them know we're working on this, reach out to them" "Got it"

You haven't been blindsided, nor have you been told what to do by fiat; you've been informed about a new stakeholder and been empowered to collect requirements from them.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#512

Post by smabie » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

jfk13 wrote: post #402

eru wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So fuck productivity. We can manage. Higher productivity is the way out of this mess. > There's also a pandemic that's killed 4.3 million people because productivity is apparently more important than containing the outbreak of a deadly disease. No. See eg the covid sections in https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/adumbrations-of-aducan...

> Higher productivity is the way out of this mess. Lower consumption might also help.

Not gonna happen

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#513

Post by AlbertCory » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

Raphael_Amiard wrote: post #140

boplicity wrote: post #99

The cost of commuting on the environment is extremely high. We should be offering incentives to companies to switch to remote work. If 20% of jobs permanently switched to remote, the impact on carbon emissions would be immediate, and extremely positive.

I'm used to the conversation in here being extremely US-centric, but realize that this is much less true for European cities with good public transportation. I haven't ever used a car to go to work in my life. I'm also very concerned about this better world where people stay home to save the planet. The common level of social interactions in the modern world is already low enough in my opinion. EDIT: It rarely happen…

"The problem is the whole american lifestyle"

We're not Europeans here, Raphael. We don't want to be.

Secondly, I've been on business trips to the UK, and the motorways are jammed in the morning, as someone else said here.

Maybe 20-somethings live in apartments and take the bus, but even in your country, home ownership is high and many people drive their cars.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#514

Post by saalweachter » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #474

erinan wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2-hour commute? I'll take the pay cut anytime, like is too short... (and maybe start looking for another job, easier to do with all that "extra" time)

Depends on the commute mode. It sounds like these are people in expensive urban areas, so they probably have transit access. So if they’re commuting by train or bus the morning commute can be spent working and the evening commute streaming TV shows or scrolling through social media.

I've been living upstate and commuting to NYC for the last ~10 years.

A pay cut going full remote would basically cancel out my commuting costs. I might end up with slightly more money in my pocket once taxes and snacks are accounted for.

That said, when things "get back to normal" I don't currently intend to apply for full remote. I didn't mind my commute two years ago. Maybe I will when I have to start doing it again.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#515

Post by lostcolony » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 4:39 PM UTC

tablespoon wrote: post #490

lostcolony wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple didn't build the first smartphone; they made it mass market because the technology (which Apple did not invent) had gotten to where bundling it into a smartphone would provide sufficient value to a consumer to be worth paying for. There were other mass market smartphones even then; what the iphone brought was UX (so kudos for Jobs for hiring Jony Ive) and an app store (so kudos for Jobs either for recognizing t…

> Apple didn't build the first smartphone; they made it mass market because the technology (which Apple did not invent) had gotten to where bundling it into a smartphone would provide sufficient value to a consumer to be worth paying for. IIRC, that was already true for business customers before the iPhone. > There were other mass market smartphones even then; what the iphone brought was UX (so kudos for Jobs for hir…

"that was already true for business customers before the iPhone." - Hence my use of the term "mass market"

"what the iPhone brought was email and the Web" - So I never mentioned email re: the iPhone, that was supported back in the first smartphone in 92. For the web, I saw an article that mentioned that, but that doesn't jibe with what I remember or can find elsewhere. There were definitely phones that allowed you to browse the web, as early as the Nokia 9000 Communicator. I think it was the first to have 'unlimited' internet plans due to their partnership with AT&T, but I'm not sure that's nearly as convincing an innovation as 'the web'. Maybe the fact that mobile Safari had a look and feel similar to desktop Safari.

I list the app store from https://time.com/4837176/iphone-10th-anniversary/ and https://www.vox.com/2017/6/26/15821652/iphone-apple-10-year-... (though to be fair, the latter also includes the web), and because it jibes with my own recollections; I don't recollect app stores before the iPhone (though it came after launch). Yes, I remember user customizations, but not an official, searchable repository of them.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#516

Post by dvtrn » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

Is anyone familiar enough with the generalities of contract law to speak on that angle of the discussion? I tried searching through the comments but I've been wondering lately: if a Googler (or any worker, really) signs an employment contract that lays out salary, pay frequency and similar, but doesn't specify that said pay, pay frequency and similar are a condition of one's physical location, do they have standing to sue their employer for breach of contract if said employer tries to change their salary when that employee packs up their bags and relocates?

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#517

Post by vel0city » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

bovine3dom wrote: post #492

vel0city wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in an American suburb. Transport options available to me: - Lightrail - Train (Amtrack station downtown, accessible from lightrail) - Bus (w/bike rack, bus stop 100ft from my front door) - Electric bicycle hire - Electric scooter hire - Foot (nearest grocery is 1.2mi, nearest restaurants are 0.8mi) - Taxi - Own bicycle (bike trail from neighborhood to the office park where I work) - Aeroplane (lightrail goes to o…

That sounds great, why aren't there more places like that in the US or why don't I hear about them? Do you find you have to use your car often? (Although living 2km away from a supermarket is an alien concept to me. I have three within a hundred metres.)

You might not hear about it as much because sadly the mass transit is underutilized by a lot of my neighbors. Also, people usually really prefer the freedom of having private transportation. Like, just riding a bicycle so max of ~5mi or so, I have maybe an option of three different supermarkets (six if you include pharmacies, which usually do stock some groceries). If you add a simple bus route, that adds maybe another two. If you choose to take a car, its literally more than dozen different super markets within a 10 minute drive which would have been an unrealistic bike ride or a complex bus path, which is not something you want to do with a week's worth of a family's amount of food you're carrying.

Its then the same thing when it comes to going to restaurants. I can easily walk to three or four restaurants. Bike, add another handful. Bus, add another dozen. A 10min drive? Literally a dozen options of practically any kind of food you could possibly imagine.

So you get less choices for more time if you ride a bike or take the bus. This is the math that most Americans do. Since its somewhat cheap to own a car for most of the US, they don't even stop to think of the cost of driving versus the cost of riding a bike or walking or taking the bus.

As to having a supermarket close by, the supermarkets near me as absolutely massive. The Kroger near me has at least 30 aisles, a full deli, full bakery, full butcher stand, full florist, fresh sushi station, massive produce section, and a hot and ready to go meal area. And its only about average sized for the area. If you've never seen them, modern American supermarkets are incredibly massive, larger than what I've seen of most European groceries. There's usually a bit of distance between them because they're such massive places. Its often not just a small hole in the wall grocer with a dozen or so aisles and a produce section.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#518

Post by drewg123 » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 4:41 PM UTC

mleonhard wrote: post #508

drewg123 wrote: post #472

I'm an Xoogler, and I have to say: Google does all kinds of stupid and annoying things which are horribly counter-productive. They way they gamified travel was a HUGE waste of time. We had a travel system which required you to come in at the average price of past trips for a trip you're taking (or get VP approval). You could "bank" any $$ you saved if you came in below average. No matter what you did, you had to wast…

In SFO-SPE (345 Spear St), REWS took away the walls and merged the little offices into one giant open-plan acoustic hellscape. Concrete walkways ensure that every person with wooden-soled shoes will disturb 50 engineers every time they walk to a meeting/cafe/microkitchen/restroom ( clop-clop-clop-clop-clop ). REWS made themselves a quiet walled office for themselves on the top floor. Google is a dysfunctional organiz…

Shortly after I left, they moved my team from Plymouth Rd (on the main campus) to a new building in Santa Clara. The old setup had high-walled cubes with 6 people per cube (which is objectively horrific, but good by Google standards). The new setup was a large room with nothing but tables and hard surfaces.

Worse, the new location was off the main campus, away from every single other group we collaborated with (and away from all the good food, activities, etc). After the move, most of my group either left or retired.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#519

Post by ghaff » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

jdavis703 wrote: post #474

erinan wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2-hour commute? I'll take the pay cut anytime, like is too short... (and maybe start looking for another job, easier to do with all that "extra" time)

Depends on the commute mode. It sounds like these are people in expensive urban areas, so they probably have transit access. So if they’re commuting by train or bus the morning commute can be spent working and the evening commute streaming TV shows or scrolling through social media.

As someone who can do a 90-120 minute door to door commute into our city office or an event in the city, it's still awful. I did it about half-time for about 18 months at another company. I would get up at 6am to drive to the train station, get to the office by about 8:30, get home 7ish--maybe somewhat later if I grabbed dinner in the city.

Yes, I could read and so forth and it was better than driving, but it still meant I had maybe 3 hours to myself in the evening.

It's OK as a very sometime thing but I'd certainly prefer not to do it even a couple days a week.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#520

Post by mamaluigie » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

The office at the location that I currently am based in for my company includes a courtyard with pond for breaks, an onsite massage therapist, food court with good food, workout gym, and other things... If I am not getting to use these extra provided perks I am expecting for my company to make up for that by paying me a portion of what they were spending on all of those in person perks. This is prob going to make some developers quit working at google I could imagine.