Vue 3.2 • Hacker News Board

Re: Vue 3.2

#121

Post by wishinghand » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

IceDane wrote: post #71

Vue is hands down the worst frontend framework I've had the displeasure of working with. The authors are trying to hard to write something "different" that in the end they've only managed to create a bunch of incidental complexity that you constantly have to deal with because of their design decisions. And then they keep trying to "fix" these problems by adding new features and more complexity. Everything in Vue is m…

I'm baffled by your comment like some of the others. If you swap Vue for React it'd make a lot more sense.

Re: Vue 3.2

#122

Post by SuboptimalEng » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 2:50 PM UTC

I quit my tech job in 2020 to learn new technologies and build my own startup - I made a HUGE bet on Vue and kinda regret it.

In the first half of 2021, I dove deep into Vue, Vuex, Nuxt.js (basically Next.js), Gridsome (basically Gatsby.js), and even coded a startup idea using Vue + Electron + FFmpeg[0] before moving to React. Three main reasons for this switch:

- Community Support: React has better support for lots of JS libraries. For example, I made a markdown editor which required the use of CodeMirror and the React NPM library for that was updated 1 year ago while the Vue library was updated 3 years ago. There's a lot of international support for Vue and some of the NPM libraries (like the CodeMirror one) are partially (or fully) documented in Chinese so this is a drawback as well.

- Typescript: Vue 3 is built from the bottom up with TypeScript but it was only released in September 2020. Most of the community thinks Vue 3 is better than Vue 2 in TS support, but still not as good as React. Additionally, since TS support has only recently been offered, libraries (like Nuxt.js) have not been updated with TS support.

- Job Market: React is the clear winner whether you are building a startup (and looking to hire developers), or want to join a company (at least in the US).

I think Vue has lots of potential to improve in all three areas but it's just not there right now. You can see my full thoughts on YouTube[1].

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/ohbl6i/i_made_a_des...

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=009-6j5ewDM

Re: Vue 3.2

#123

Post by xrd » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 2:55 PM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #50

xrd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used both professionally (and React as well). I can't stand Vue (but haven't tried newer versions). The reason is that Vue is miserable to debug in the browser. It is really clever to use proxies for values but then you have to make an extra click to see the actual value and it really slows you down. Recreating the state of the app inside your head can't be done quickly because you have to manually evaluate ever…

> "Svelte is just JavaScript" All JS frameworks are just Javascript. What else would they be? The templates however are all specific DSLs, whether it's JSX, HTML with directives, or Svelte's own syntax. In the end these template just get compiled into a JS render function that takes in data and returns an HTML structure.

No.

JSX is not JavaScript. React builds an entire system hidden from you that isn't the way JavaScript runs.

What abstraction are you thinking in? With Svelte I'm thinking in JavaScript. With Vue and React I'm thinking in hooks-land or whatever, and trying to understand a completely different virtual machine. There are some really brilliant ideas they have come up with, but the whole cloth experience isn't for me.

Vue is worse. Create an item inside the data attribute. Somehow that becomes available to computed functions. Somehow you can have that data attribute rely on parent attributes. None of that is the way JavaScript works without Vue on top. I'm so glad I don't have to remember those rules anymore.

You are correct they just compile into render functions. But the one Svelte produces is readable and the ones produced by Vue and React are a lot less so.

Re: Vue 3.2

#124

Post by xrd » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 2:59 PM UTC

Sammi wrote: post #115

lights0123 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Svelte is just JavaScript I would argue very much against that: Svelte looks like Javascript, but behaves completely different. I don't think it's a bad thing, and quite enjoy it, but I don't think it's valid to call a language that happens to be valid JS syntactically actually JS. > It is trivial to use any JavaScript library because it requires no integration wrapper to convert that library to Svelte. Just use it…

"Svelte looks like Javascript, but behaves completely different" No. This is complete and absolute FUD that you are spouting. Svelte adds a thin feature or two on top of vanilla Javascript. The rest is just JS exactly like you know it.

This.

You can see what Svelte creates inside the tutorial. It's very simple JavaScript.

With React or Vue, you are pulling a bunch of stuff written in a DSL into their massive runtime. Try keeping all that complexity for that runtime in your head.

Re: Vue 3.2

#125

Post by rikstar » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:00 PM UTC

I was really excited for Vue3 and constantly being told at the Austin VueConf that it will be backwards compatible. But reality was very very different.

There are a bunch of breaking changes to Vue 3 that will require code changes, and whilst the vue compat package is meant to alleviate some of that it was only released as of v3.1 and still does not handle all the breaking changes. Some of these breaking changes also seem like they could have been been a good addition and not a full breaking change. Consider the v-model changes, why change the underlying events? You could have it work both the old and new way and log a deprecation warning for the old way. Give engineers more time to fix the code as they see these issues with out breaking.

Probably the biggest pain point I have hit with moving to v3 is the state of vue-test-utils, it is still in RC. Honestly I would have loved to seen this released in lock step with Vue, I mean it really should if it is how you are meant to unit test your components.

That being said obviously a lot of my pain is coming from v2 to v3 I imagine being green field the experience would be fantastic. I still really love using Vue just the upgrade has left a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

(edit formatting)

Re: Vue 3.2

#126

Post by Dowwie » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

SuboptimalEng wrote: post #122

I quit my tech job in 2020 to learn new technologies and build my own startup - I made a HUGE bet on Vue and kinda regret it. In the first half of 2021, I dove deep into Vue, Vuex, Nuxt.js (basically Next.js), Gridsome (basically Gatsby.js), and even coded a startup idea using Vue + Electron + FFmpeg[0] before moving to React. Three main reasons for this switch: - Community Support: React has better support for lots…

How much training does a React developer need to become productive with Vue? Same language. Same domain.

Re: Vue 3.2

#127

Post by manigandham » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:30 PM UTC

xrd wrote: post #123

manigandham wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Svelte is just JavaScript" All JS frameworks are just Javascript. What else would they be? The templates however are all specific DSLs, whether it's JSX, HTML with directives, or Svelte's own syntax. In the end these template just get compiled into a JS render function that takes in data and returns an HTML structure.

No. JSX is not JavaScript. React builds an entire system hidden from you that isn't the way JavaScript runs. What abstraction are you thinking in? With Svelte I'm thinking in JavaScript. With Vue and React I'm thinking in hooks-land or whatever, and trying to understand a completely different virtual machine. There are some really brilliant ideas they have come up with, but the whole cloth experience isn't for me. Vu…

Yes, templates are different. That's why I said that they're "specific DSLs ... compiled into a JS render function"

Anyway there is no other abstraction. Hooks and composition APIs aren't magic, they're functions that you can write yourself. It's basic property change notifications but wrapped up in various levels of automation. Vue's object API can definitely seem messy but the new composition APIs in Vue 3 is standard JS syntax. Maybe it would be helpful to see the code yourself: https://github.com/vuejs/vue-next/tree/master/packages/react...

Re: Vue 3.2

#128

Post by manigandham » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

rikstar wrote: post #125

I was really excited for Vue3 and constantly being told at the Austin VueConf that it will be backwards compatible. But reality was very very different. There are a bunch of breaking changes to Vue 3 that will require code changes, and whilst the vue compat package is meant to alleviate some of that it was only released as of v3.1 and still does not handle all the breaking changes. Some of these breaking changes also…

Vue 3 has definitely been a terrible launch for such a large framework. Many of the official supporting libraries are out of sync, the devtools don't work and require a manual beta install, and other projects like nuxt.js seem to be in a perpetual delay. It's unfortunate as Vue was known for having a strong lead and consistent releases but it's too much of a mess right now.

Re: Vue 3.2

#129

Post by runarberg » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 3:54 PM UTC

alichapman wrote: post #39

I think my favourite thing about Vue 3 and the composition API is that VueX is essentially obsolete - you can manage your global state by calling real life functions. This means instead of doing `dispatch("action")` you just call `action()`. When using Typescript this is a godsend, as the action functions keep all of their type information.

Agreed. I do miss the devtool support of vuex though, but there is an RFC for a vuex 5 which will remedy that by fully embracing the composition API.

https://github.com/kiaking/rfcs/blob/vuex-5/active-rfcs/0000...

Re: Vue 3.2

#130

Post by dhritzkiv » Tue, Aug 10, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

SuboptimalEng wrote: post #122

I quit my tech job in 2020 to learn new technologies and build my own startup - I made a HUGE bet on Vue and kinda regret it. In the first half of 2021, I dove deep into Vue, Vuex, Nuxt.js (basically Next.js), Gridsome (basically Gatsby.js), and even coded a startup idea using Vue + Electron + FFmpeg[0] before moving to React. Three main reasons for this switch: - Community Support: React has better support for lots…

I've been working in TypeScript with Vue 2, and Nuxt.js for over 2 and a half years now. They might not be built in TypeScript, but they support them very well.

I've also never met a library that couldn't be integrated into Vue easily, whether through an official solution, a 3rd-party library or analogue, or simply integrating it yourself. I will give you that there are certainly more libraries catering to React specifically.