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Vue 3.2

blog.vuejs.org

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Re: Vue 3.2

#111

Post by emn13 »

iKlsR wrote: post #81
IceDane wrote: post #71

Vue is hands down the worst frontend framework I've had the displeasure of working with. The authors are trying to hard to write something "different" that in the end they've only managed to create a bunch of incidental complexity that you constantly have to deal with because of their design decisions. And then they keep trying to "fix" these problems by adding new features and more complexity. Everything in Vue is m…

I think you should swap Vue with React in this take, I'd agree with you 110% if you did that. React is the most over engineered tech I've ever worked with and if it weren't for excellent IDE support a la TS etc would be a nightmare to use on a daily basis. Also Vue 3 has great support for TS, 2 not so much. I can't see myself doing any project without Vue, it's literally plug and play and by far easier to grok and us…

templates are still stringly-typed, aren't they?

And that whole extra language just for templates is annoying, and unnecessary. I don't want a v-else-if="level ==== 6", because I'm going to make typos, and I want the ability to refactor code in the future without painstakingly reviewing every string in the codebase.

How good is the jsx integration in practice? It's there, but the vue docs recommend against it, without going into details of the motivation.

Re: Vue 3.2

#112

Post by ragnese »

nicholasjarr wrote: post #99

I'm really tired with React recently so I was looking at the competition and really liked Svelte. For those that know Vue, how does Svelte stack up with it?

I'm completely unqualified to offer anything. The last time I tried React was four years ago, I've never used Svelte, and I'm currently using Vue 2. Vue 3 supposedly fixed a lot of the most surprising/annoying things about Vue 2.

But I'll say this. Thank goodness I don't consider myself a frontend dev.

The selling point of Vue was that it's supposed to be less of a learning curve compared to React. It's "closer" to regular HTML and JS. Except it's not really. You still should not mutate component "properties". If you ask anyone any question about anything, the answer is "use Vuex"- even if it has nothing to do with what you're trying to accomplish. There is definitely a learning curve around its reactivity model (this has supposedly improved with version 3). And I found some stuff just awkward, e.g., Vue components have lifecycle hooks that "support" async/Promises, but the lifecycle doesn't await the Promises, so I had some initialization that had race conditions and I didn't realize why/how.

I don't know if that's good or not, honestly. I just know that Vue2 has certainly not made me enjoy frontend work any more than I did before (which wasn't much).

Re: Vue 3.2

#113

Post by pier25 »

nicholasjarr wrote: post #99

I'm really tired with React recently so I was looking at the competition and really liked Svelte. For those that know Vue, how does Svelte stack up with it?

Obviously the Vue ecosystem is much larger but other than that, personally, I much prefer Svelte.

I used Vue 2 as my main framework for some years, and still maintain a couple of projects with it.

I'm now focused on Svelte. The performance is better, the bundle sizes are much smaller, and most importantly you write a fraction of the code to achieve the same thing.

Svelte also has a reactive primitive (they call them stores) which allows you to model pretty much anything with reactivity similar to what you'd do with MobX but with a fraction of the cost. I believe Vue 3 also has this now but uses Proxy which is not supported in older browsers.

Re: Vue 3.2

#114

Post by chris_st »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #37

Anyone moved from React to Vue. I've been reading the Vue docs and I like some things about it but the compositional model seems a bit more confusing compared to React. Also, I think I do prefer working with JSX versus using html templates. I prefer that close coupling of JS logic and JSX presentation. The most appealing thing about Vue is that it seems to be more of a framework, maybe somewhere in the middle between…

I moved a few years ago to Vue, and particularly with Vue3, I'm more than happy I switched.

> I think I do prefer working with JSX versus using html templates.

I thought I'd prefer JSX too, but I've come to much prefer Vue templates. Turns out that, while it's nice to have the "direct" control, I prefer seeing a full context that the template gives you, rather than having a lot of broken up parts, like JSX.

That said, it is slightly easier to refactor stuff in JSX.

Re: Vue 3.2

#115

Post by Sammi »

lights0123 wrote: post #26
xrd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used both professionally (and React as well). I can't stand Vue (but haven't tried newer versions). The reason is that Vue is miserable to debug in the browser. It is really clever to use proxies for values but then you have to make an extra click to see the actual value and it really slows you down. Recreating the state of the app inside your head can't be done quickly because you have to manually evaluate ever…

> Svelte is just JavaScript I would argue very much against that: Svelte looks like Javascript, but behaves completely different. I don't think it's a bad thing, and quite enjoy it, but I don't think it's valid to call a language that happens to be valid JS syntactically actually JS. > It is trivial to use any JavaScript library because it requires no integration wrapper to convert that library to Svelte. Just use it…

"Svelte looks like Javascript, but behaves completely different"

No. This is complete and absolute FUD that you are spouting. Svelte adds a thin feature or two on top of vanilla Javascript. The rest is just JS exactly like you know it.

Re: Vue 3.2

#116

Post by omarhaneef »

mithusingh32 wrote: post #104
nicholasjarr wrote: post #99

I'm really tired with React recently so I was looking at the competition and really liked Svelte. For those that know Vue, how does Svelte stack up with it?

I love svelte. (I'm not a vue user). But my biggest gripe with it is that you can't create multiple components in a single file like how you can in react. I remember seeing a FR for it in GitHub for it. But can't remember where they landed on it.

i wonder if there is an editor that lets your places multiple files like tiles in the same buffer/window so it feels like the same file to you as an editor?

I am sure emacs can be made to do this, but I wonder if vscode has a plugin for it...

Re: Vue 3.2

#117

Post by jjice »

Got a little chuckle when I realized their release names were based on anime. I love a good release naming scheme, adds a bit of fun, like Debian.

Re: Vue 3.2

#118

Post by foobarrio »

ragnese wrote: post #112
nicholasjarr wrote: post #99

I'm really tired with React recently so I was looking at the competition and really liked Svelte. For those that know Vue, how does Svelte stack up with it?

I'm completely unqualified to offer anything. The last time I tried React was four years ago, I've never used Svelte, and I'm currently using Vue 2. Vue 3 supposedly fixed a lot of the most surprising/annoying things about Vue 2. But I'll say this. Thank goodness I don't consider myself a frontend dev. The selling point of Vue was that it's supposed to be less of a learning curve compared to React. It's "closer" to r…

The big gotcha for Vue2 was the performance when you wanted to display a list of like 10,000 things. I like to tinker with data and a lot of my day is spent on an sql prompt inside of emacs watching results sets of 1,000 rows or 50 columns just fly by so I can search them visually. Having to remember to "freeze" things for performance or create simpler "views" of the model I'm playing with is sometimes jarring.

Re: Vue 3.2

#119

Post by kiawe_fire »

Rodeoclash wrote: post #41
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #37

Anyone moved from React to Vue. I've been reading the Vue docs and I like some things about it but the compositional model seems a bit more confusing compared to React. Also, I think I do prefer working with JSX versus using html templates. I prefer that close coupling of JS logic and JSX presentation. The most appealing thing about Vue is that it seems to be more of a framework, maybe somewhere in the middle between…

I moved to Vue from ~3 years of React. I've now done ~2 years of VueJS while continuing to use React in some side projects. To be quite honest, I'd probably stick with React if given the choice. My takeaway with Vue is it makes a number of choices for you out of the gate w.r.t to things like data store (Vuex) and routing (Vue-router) whereas with React you'd bolt these on yourself (i.e. mobx and found-router). I also…

I work about 80-90% with Vue 2 and 10-20% with React, so take this with salt.

But, with React, I rarely find myself wondering why the component isn’t re-rendering when something changes, whereas this happens frequently with Vue.

I also rarely find myself having to plan out how props will flow to state or when something needs to be a computed (or memoized) property. Things usually just kind of come together.

There are several reasons for this, but often times it comes down to either doing the wrong type of assignment that makes Vue lose its wrapper object around the property, or something to do with the way I use props as defaults for reactive state.

Which leads to another complaint - mixing props passed in to the component in the same space as the reactive state. This means the property needs a different name from the state property that it drives, it means having to mentally track which piece of data can be mutated because its state and which cannot because its a prop, and it often means wondering why your component isn’t re-rendering when your prop changes, only to finally realize you really need a computed prop or a prop watcher.

I don’t want to sound overly dramatic though. It doesn’t happen every day, it’s never prevented me from doing anything, and Vue (IMO) makes up for it in other ways like single file components with better styling options. It’s also possible I just haven’t used React enough.

But that said, in my experience, some of Vue’s magic that makes it simpler to get started with, is also what makes it trickier to work with as projects get larger.

Disclaimer: Vue 3 introduces hook like things that I haven’t tried, and perhaps make my complaints less valid.

Re: Vue 3.2

#120

Post by jrsj »

5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #37

Anyone moved from React to Vue. I've been reading the Vue docs and I like some things about it but the compositional model seems a bit more confusing compared to React. Also, I think I do prefer working with JSX versus using html templates. I prefer that close coupling of JS logic and JSX presentation. The most appealing thing about Vue is that it seems to be more of a framework, maybe somewhere in the middle between…

I’m in the process of making this move now because I know both well but I’m on a team of primarily backend engineers that want to be able to work on our front ends and Vue is much simpler to read and reason about in my experience. Fewer files, fewer new concepts, syntax closer to what you’d see with old school server rendered stuff. I don’t really care about 3rd party libs or React Native so it just makes sense.

Overall I just have a strong aesthetic preference for Vue too. It feels clean and I have a higher appreciation for the quality of my work when I use it. React apps I work on always feel like they’re not quite “there”, there’s so many different parts that it never feels fully coherent to me.

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