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American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

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Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#281

Post by snicker7 »

ymolodtsov wrote: post #122
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oregon governor Kate Brown has signed a law that allows students to graduate without proving they can read, write or do math. The law had overwhelming Democrat support & is justified on the basis that it will benefit non-white students. https://thepostmillennial.com/oregon-governor-signs-new-law-...

Not sure how exactly the lack of these skills could benefit anyone. I understand that the lack of a school diploma is a huge drag in life and that can primarily affect people from disadvantaged backgrounds, but shouldn't they focus on improving the way they teach kids instead?

> Not sure how exactly the lack of these skills could benefit anyone.

Lower the standards across all levels -- high school graduation, college admissions, job placements. Eventually we end up with surgeons and lawyers that are illiterate. But at least it is equitable!

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#282

Post by nickloewen »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #92
farmerstan wrote: post #47

This is the video by the daughter of the founder of the Russian School of Math. We sent our son there over the summer, he enjoyed it and all the kids were pretty advanced in the class. California seems to want to hold everyone back in the name of equity. But that will force more people into the private school system, which is exactly what we did. I don’t trust the California government to have my children’s best inte…

Oregon governor Kate Brown has signed a law that allows students to graduate without proving they can read, write or do math. The law had overwhelming Democrat support & is justified on the basis that it will benefit non-white students. https://thepostmillennial.com/oregon-governor-signs-new-law-...

The Post Millennial story on this is quite light on details.

Here’s another article with more: https://katu.com/news/local/oregon-legislature-passes-bill-t...

And here’s the text of the bill (PDF): https://olis.oregonlegislature.gov/liz/2021R1/Downloads/Meas...

And here’s the Department of Education’s page on the Essential Skills Graduation Requirement: https://www.oregon.gov/ode/educator-resources/essentialskill...

Key points from my quick read:

This is about suspending mandatory testing prior to graduation. They did that last year due to virtual learning, and are extending the suspension longer while things get back to normal, and while they assess whether the approach to testing they have is suitable (and in line with what other states are doing). It is not (yet) gone forever, just for a couple years. And you still have to pass courses in all of those subject orders in order to graduate.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#283

Post by failuser »

Also the number of people who need advanced math is so small in USA, so it’s more of a hobby than education. And people who need advanced math need more probability theory and statistics than calculus. In China, on the other hand… I might be extrapolating.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#284

Post by andagainagain »

"Russian Math" seems to just be "More Math".

The basic education concepts at ploy here are well known, just not widely deployed.

Why? IMO it's because of what I think is the sole problem with american education - parents themselves not caring if their kids actually know anything. It's actually common, extremely common, for american parents to think that the point of education is to get a piece of paper (degree) or to get a job. And a large number of the parents that think the point is actually knowing things also put no pressure on the school systems to actually provide that.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#285

Post by wantsanagent »

markus_zhang wrote: post #232
sega_sai wrote: post #210

It's a weird article. I think this idea of 'Russian math' is very nebulous, and is probably used as marketing tool nowadays by some schools abroad. I have graduated from one of the top physics/maths high schools in Russia, and yes we had great math education there, but that was an outlier. Outside a handful of schools the math education is pretty dismal. And even in the good math schools there are different ways of t…

In China we used to have those after-hour classes too. Nowadays they charge a lot of money and the material declines in quality as well. Back then they hired some professors from the top universities to do the teaching of after-hour classes and nowadays who knows those guys are...

Didn't they just ban for-profit tutoring like this? Do you think that will have beneficial outcomes?

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#286

Post by sudosysgen »

inglor_cz wrote: post #239
b112 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's happened in Canada, is that curriculum is designed to teach to the weakest student in a subject. This is thought of as being fair, of helping, for of course everyone is intellectually equal. Thus, those who can accel, are denied their future, for those which will leave high school, and never touch (for example) advanced math again. Equality comes from recognising our differences, and enabling best outcomes for…

It is kinda ironic that the former Soviet Bloc, whose central ideology was built around equality, had a very streamed education system concentrated on recognizing talented individuals early, while the Anglosphere, usually renowned for its ceaseless competition, emphasizes equality at the cost of excellence now.

Well, it's only ironic because this is a bit of a simplification. Their ideology always recognized inequality of ability and comparative advantages of various individuals. The issue, at least on a theoretic level, receiving more value and power because you happened to own something (capital) instead of because you produced more or produced things that few people could produce. Which is why compensation was always unequal and often based on production.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#287

Post by MattGaiser »

damagednoob wrote: post #237
markus_zhang wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially large part of education falls onto the shoulder of parents, which is natural. I'm even preparing to sharpen up my Math/Physics/Electronics skills for the future. Time to re-learn those things that I mostly forgot!

> Essentially large part of education falls onto the shoulder of parents, which is natural. Have to disagree. A parent can't be simultaneously up to speed on Math, English, a 2nd language, Biology, Science, History or any of the other subjects that a child will learn in school School is meant to teach, parents are meant to socialise. Unfortunately that seems to have been swapped around somewhere along the line.

You need to be up on them to the level of a grade school student. That isn't a high level.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#288

Post by flavius29663 »

failuser wrote: post #283

Also the number of people who need advanced math is so small in USA, so it’s more of a hobby than education. And people who need advanced math need more probability theory and statistics than calculus. In China, on the other hand… I might be extrapolating.

In my view math is not so much about you needing it. It's about developing abstract thinking, reasoning, logic.

It's in the same boat as sports. You will never need to run 100 yards with a ball in your hand, except for the sport itself. Yet we still do sports to train and stay in shape.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#289

Post by handrous »

adventured wrote: post #256
spoonjim wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just privileged extraction, but likely high IQ. The Russian brain teasers are to get smart students excelling. The American system is set up to get the weak student stumbling to the finish line. The American school system isn’t designed to produce high achievers which is why the high achievers are produced by the parents and not by the schools.

What you're describing isn't the US system of education. The US system is as bifurcated as the various European nations mentioned in this thread. The elite families in the US do not send their kids to the same (frequently) underperforming schools as the middle class or poor, just as those types of families don't do that in Russia or Romania. > The American school system isn’t designed to produce high achievers Which…

> The US system is as bifurcated as the various European nations mentioned in this thread. The elite families in the US do not send their kids to the same (frequently) underperforming schools as the middle class or poor, just as those types of families don't do that in Russia or Romania.

To illustrate the point: the only Presidential candidate from one of the two major parties, since and including the 2000 election, not to have attended a private prep school, was Hillary Clinton.

Re: American parents are sending their kids to 'Russian math' (2017)

#290

Post by markus_zhang »

wantsanagent wrote: post #285
markus_zhang wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In China we used to have those after-hour classes too. Nowadays they charge a lot of money and the material declines in quality as well. Back then they hired some professors from the top universities to do the teaching of after-hour classes and nowadays who knows those guys are...

Didn't they just ban for-profit tutoring like this? Do you think that will have beneficial outcomes?

Yeah they just did that not long ago. I wrote a reply for that:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27945213

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