In my opinion, there should be pay cuts to continue coming to the office with a 2 hour commute by car.
Google's proposal incentivizes the wrong thing.
Google employees who work from home could lose money
301–310 of 699 posts
Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
Manhattan leases also famously start at 10 year terms as the shortest. With all the secrets going around your average FAANG office, no way would any company sublease a partial floor. Maybe an entire floor, but that creates more issues with the complicated separate lobby and elevator systems they previously built These companies could maybe cut the costs in a few years, maybe in 10-15. Most of these employees working…
Google owns the buildings.. they bought them outright.
Though a lot of the space inside is still leased out to external tenants, so space used for Google employees does have the opportunity cost that you're not instead earning rent on it.
Google doesn't really want to be a landlord though -- other than the retail first floor of Chelsea Market, I think the long-term goal is to get the rest of the tenants out. The landlording is already contracted out anyway.
Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money
#303> One Google employee, who asked not to be identified for fear of retaliation, typically commutes to the Seattle office from a nearby county and would likely see their pay cut by about 10% by working from home full-time, according estimates by the company's Work Location Tool launched in June. > The employee was considering remote work but decided to keep going to the office - despite the two-hour commute. This seems…
Those choosing to work in the office can still WFH two days a week, so it’s a 10% decrease for a 12% reduction in time spent at or going to work.
Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money
#304Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm used to the conversation in here being extremely US-centric, but realize that this is much less true for European cities with good public transportation. I haven't ever used a car to go to work in my life. I'm also very concerned about this better world where people stay home to save the planet. The common level of social interactions in the modern world is already low enough in my opinion. EDIT: It rarely happen…
I agree with your overall point, but as a (nearly middle aged) American, I've almost never commuted by car or lived in a single family house as an adult. And frankly I'm sick of being lumped in to large generalizations of America that simply don't apply to me or millions of other people living here. The media (including social media, and the internet) largely consists of the most divisive and stereotyped parts of lif…
Of course! But there are some tendencies, or else OP's comment wouldn't have made sense even in the context of the US.
My first few times in the US were in NYC, where I found a way of life that is very close to what I know as a Parisian. Imagine my surprise discovering basically any other city in the US.
You might not be part of that population, but the US problem goes way beyond a problem of perception, and there are numbers to confirm it.
Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money
#305> One Google employee, who asked not to be identified for fear of retaliation, typically commutes to the Seattle office from a nearby county and would likely see their pay cut by about 10% by working from home full-time, according estimates by the company's Work Location Tool launched in June. > The employee was considering remote work but decided to keep going to the office - despite the two-hour commute. This seems…
> a 25% increase in the amount of their time that's committed to work I think you mean committed to life rather than work? Remember, people normally commute outside of work hours. Therefore your math doesn't add up. 2hr commute against 8 hours of work is not a 25% increase. But I think your point is still valid. Personally I'd "buy" my extra 2 hours of daily life for a 10% decrease in salary. Given that I'm awake for…
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Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money
#306Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah. "Employment Contracts" are not really a thing in most of the US, at least not like they are in Europe. Yes, employers will have you sign an official looking employment agreement, which basically serves as documentation that they're currently compensating you at X rate, and that you agree to be bound by specific employer rules (like employee handbooks / policies / etc). Those are not legally binding contracts. At-…
As non-legally binding contracts, can employers force employees to sign them? If they can, then would they have force of law? If not, then how can employers enforce non-competition, non-solicitation, non-disparagement, and non-disclosure clauses?
I believe the legal theory is that your employment and pay are compensation for agreeing to those terms, in terms of making it legally binding (offer, acceptance, and compensation)
It's crummy and it's my opinion that non-competes should either be illegal everywhere or require employers to continue paying your salary during that period.
But the laws as they stand broadly favor employers in this matter, and the reality of a large well-resourced corporation with a stable of lawyers makes it difficult for employees to fight even in situations where they are in the right.
Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
> good public transportation. Public transportation has a higher environment cost than staying at home to work. That should be fairly obvious.
Heating and cooling lots of individual homes isn't as efficient as office buildings. I'd love to see math on which one is better for the environment.
It's going to vary entirely depending on your dwelling type. But that's a red herring I think. We need to make homes energy efficient anyway (regardless where people work) and once you've insulated/moved to more efficient heating/cooling then the cost of keeping your dwelling running for the hours you're personally out should be pretty low. Not to mention however many households have to be kept warm/cool because there are other household members home.
Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
> a 25% increase in the amount of their time that's committed to work I think you mean committed to life rather than work? Remember, people normally commute outside of work hours. Therefore your math doesn't add up. 2hr commute against 8 hours of work is not a 25% increase. But I think your point is still valid. Personally I'd "buy" my extra 2 hours of daily life for a 10% decrease in salary. Given that I'm awake for…
> Therefore your math doesn't add up. 2hr commute against 8 hours of work is not a 25% increase. What? Going from 8 to 10 hours is absolutely a 25% increase. 10 is 125% of 8
The situation is a bit more complex than that. First, people don't live in the office, so even if you live closer to the workplace, you still spend a non-negligible amount of time preparing and getting there. It can easily amount to more than 30 minutes a day.
And secondly, an office job can be stressful, consuming, in a way that commuting isn't (if done by train or bicycle for instance). So i wouldn't put them all in the same box as time devoted to work.
Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
If Google felt that WFH had no negative effect on productivity, they could go the route of Twitter and others. The C-level clearly disagrees that this arrangement is ideal for the company, and are disincentivizing it with pay cuts.
Are you sure it's that simple? Google was previously known in the wider world for imposing longer than average work days under the guise of "you love it here at the office we have pingpong and rock climbing". It wasn't about extracting productivity, it was about imposing culture.
Imposing culture and keeping people around at all hours was in the service of company productivity. At least that is their philosophy. It really is that simple.
Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why wouldn't they? Any "sane" company out there will cut your salary as soon as they find a good excuse to do so. Working from home VS working from the office is the perfect excuse. Productivity doesn't matter because if you go below the minimum bar, you are lay off.
As a counterexample, my company pays us 3€ per day that we WFH in order to compensate for using personal resources. They are also paying for necessary equipment such as office chair, monitor, etc. Than again I presume almost everyone in this thread is speaking about American companies, not that it doesn't happen elsewhere, but generally these (as you put it, "sane") company stories tend to be in the US.
This is a great point, particularly considering here in the US we've lost the ability to claim deductions on a home office if we're a company employee, as of 2018.
I've worked remotely for a long time, and have accepted the reality of increased electric bills, but I'm sure this was a surprise to some.