Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google employees who work from home could lose money

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 699 posts

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#281

Post by glenneroo »

sdevonoes wrote: post #226
ashtonkem wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s also awful timing. After what, 18 months of productive WFH now they want to cut salary?

Why wouldn't they? Any "sane" company out there will cut your salary as soon as they find a good excuse to do so. Working from home VS working from the office is the perfect excuse. Productivity doesn't matter because if you go below the minimum bar, you are lay off.

As a counterexample, my company pays us 3€ per day that we WFH in order to compensate for using personal resources. They are also paying for necessary equipment such as office chair, monitor, etc.

Than again I presume almost everyone in this thread is speaking about American companies, not that it doesn't happen elsewhere, but generally these (as you put it, "sane") company stories tend to be in the US.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#282

Post by wutbrodo »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #240
chitowneats wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Google felt that WFH had no negative effect on productivity, they could go the route of Twitter and others. The C-level clearly disagrees that this arrangement is ideal for the company, and are disincentivizing it with pay cuts.

Are you sure it's that simple? Google was previously known in the wider world for imposing longer than average work days under the guise of "you love it here at the office we have pingpong and rock climbing". It wasn't about extracting productivity, it was about imposing culture.

> Google was previously known in the wider world for imposing longer than average work days under the guise of "you love it here at the office we have pingpong and rock climbing".

Honesty, in my experience this impression is just desperate cope from people with worse work environments. My time at Google was the easiest/most relaxing of my career by far. Hell, that's why I left.

But whenever people would ask me about all the flashy perks and I'd confirm we had them, 100% of the time they'd follow up by _telling_ me (not asking): "they work you like a dog though". It was an early and dramatic lesson in how powerfully people are chained to the just-world fallacy: their emotional incontinence was severe enough that it literally prevented them from conceiving of a work environment that was simply more pleasant than theirs.

Google's perk-filled environment doesn't need to be explained by anything but golden handcuffs + productivity boosts from having recreation/convenience onsite.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#283

Post by rexreed »

jffry wrote: post #262
rexreed wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"With the understanding that" is not a legal framework. Anything that's key to the understanding of a contract needs to be in a contract. Implicit "I always thought that" doesn't hold water. If I entered into an employee contract with the understanding that I would be given responsibility of a team or project, even though such an understanding was not in the contract, and then the management decides to take away that…

Ah. "Employment Contracts" are not really a thing in most of the US, at least not like they are in Europe. Yes, employers will have you sign an official looking employment agreement, which basically serves as documentation that they're currently compensating you at X rate, and that you agree to be bound by specific employer rules (like employee handbooks / policies / etc). Those are not legally binding contracts. At-…

As non-legally binding contracts, can employers force employees to sign them? If they can, then would they have force of law? If not, then how can employers enforce non-competition, non-solicitation, non-disparagement, and non-disclosure clauses?

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#284

Post by jffry »

rexreed wrote: post #273
jffry wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barring specific states or specific circumstances (e.g. negotiated terms with a union), yes that is the way it works in most of the US. Your employer cannot retroactively change your compensation for work already performed, but they can, at any time, tell you that your compensation is changing and all future work will be paid at a new (usually lower) rate. Depending on jurisdiction, if you were to quit in the face of…

If employers have the right to make arbitrary compensation changes for future work, they they should lose any rights to enforce non-competition clauses in employee agreements. Non-competition introduces asymmetric decision-making since the employee cannot arbitrarily decide to leave for a matter as straightforward as a compensation change because they will no longer be able to work in their desired industry or market…

Some states, like California, do place stricter limits or outright on non-competes, and it's gaining steam in other places.

Worker's rights in the US are generally terrible so it's a giant patchwork of varying quality.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#285

Post by kamaal »

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #56

> One Google employee ..would likely see their pay cut by about 10% by working from home full-time > The employee was considering remote work but decided to keep going to the office - despite the two-hour commute. 10% paycut in place of 10 hours of commute seems a good deal to me.

Once they know you are ready to settle for 10% less. The next step is to go after the next 10%.

The only reason why are they are not going for a straight 40% cut is because they want to phase it out over time. Else lots of people would leave and they'd have to find their replacement.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#286

Post by radicalbyte »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #160
Raphael_Amiard wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm used to the conversation in here being extremely US-centric, but realize that this is much less true for European cities with good public transportation. I haven't ever used a car to go to work in my life. I'm also very concerned about this better world where people stay home to save the planet. The common level of social interactions in the modern world is already low enough in my opinion. EDIT: It rarely happen…

I'm a big fan of mass transit. I live in the US, but traveled regularly to Tokyo for over 20 years. Their mass transit system is awesome . The social interaction thing is a big deal, but I don't think remote work will be the coffin nail, there. In fact, it could improve social interactions between neighbors. There's a school of thought, that the air conditioner has been the true bane of social interaction, as everyon…

It was the same here in NL. I'm thinking of doubling the solar panels and getting airco - at least then the environmental cost is relatively low.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#287

Post by wongarsu »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #160
Raphael_Amiard wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm used to the conversation in here being extremely US-centric, but realize that this is much less true for European cities with good public transportation. I haven't ever used a car to go to work in my life. I'm also very concerned about this better world where people stay home to save the planet. The common level of social interactions in the modern world is already low enough in my opinion. EDIT: It rarely happen…

I'm a big fan of mass transit. I live in the US, but traveled regularly to Tokyo for over 20 years. Their mass transit system is awesome . The social interaction thing is a big deal, but I don't think remote work will be the coffin nail, there. In fact, it could improve social interactions between neighbors. There's a school of thought, that the air conditioner has been the true bane of social interaction, as everyon…

In Germany we used to have unbearably hot weather for maybe a week a year. You just suffered through it, coping with going to the swimming pool or going to the ice cream parlour. All very social activities.

Now we are slowly getting used to the new reality of hot weather for weeks or months each year, and getting air conditioning is something many people think about (but most still put off because electricity is expensive).

I think in general warm weather is conductive to social activities (just look at Southern Italy vs Norway, or basically any place in Northern Europe vs any place in Southern Europe), but air conditioning drives people to just stay at home. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#288

Post by sjg007 »

londons_explore wrote: post #88
jeswin wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At that point, it's better to let the employee go.

Except that seems to be in the minds of a large chunk of FAANG employees... They can't let them all go. So they give payrises instead

It's probably cheaper to give them all pay raises. Even if they all left and started startups there will be 1 or 2 that hit it big and probably eat Google's lunch. That will probably happen anyway by an outsider but the odds are less.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#289

Post by rwmj »

bnycum wrote: post #258
mumblemumble wrote: post #156

> One Google employee, who asked not to be identified for fear of retaliation, typically commutes to the Seattle office from a nearby county and would likely see their pay cut by about 10% by working from home full-time, according estimates by the company's Work Location Tool launched in June. > The employee was considering remote work but decided to keep going to the office - despite the two-hour commute. This seems…

I've worked from home for almost 12 years now, and I have always thought about the reverse. How much of an increase in pay would it take for me to go back into the office? Probably about 20% at least. If I were working in an office with a 2 hour commute I'd definitely take that 10% paycut to live a much better life.

I've been working from home for 18 years and there's no amount of money that would make me commute to a job. I'd take another job or work for myself rather than do it.

Re: Google employees who work from home could lose money

#290

Post by sshagent »

Back in 2009 i took a £10k pay cut as my deal to work from home. That was easy math back then, not only was i reclaiming 4 hours of my life...but the train season ticket was £6k which at that tax bracket made it £10k. I'd wager people in similar positions could do such a thing to sweeten the deal if needed
Post reply on HN