Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents • Hacker News Board

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#41

Post by burgerbrain » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:29 PM UTC

VMG wrote: post #26

Taft wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the increasingly vocal outcry of rampant patent abuse, it's also possible that tech giants begin publicly stating their position towards US patent law: it needn't exist (or one of the many alternatives that have been proposed). If the market can metabolize that, patent law reform isn't far away.

Couldn't the tech giants cooperate and introduce a system that benefits the top 10% and exclude the long tail of smaller companies? That could be even worse.

Worse? That is exactly what we have right now!

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#42

Post by akdetrick » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:30 PM UTC

AndyJPartridge wrote: post #30

pyre wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or a paddle/spatula. They might have been able to argue that it wasn't a spoon because there were no raise edges.

Or chopsticks. Assuming someone hasn't patented a stick. (Or come to think about it, the chewing process.)

Sticks may be fine, as long as you don't use it to play fetch with your dog later: http://www.google.com/patents?id=hhYJAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&#38...

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#43

Post by Pewpewarrows » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:31 PM UTC

GHFigs wrote: post #31

It's amusing that when there is a ruling in HTC's favor the headline is: "Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents"...but when there was a ruling in Apple's favor it was: "Apple's Plot to Kill Top Android Maker HTC Nears Fruition With Win" The latter being illustrated with a picture of Steve Jobs as the Emperor from Star Wars. Classy.

As others have noted, it's because Apple decided to get their hands dirty first claiming intellectual property with ridiculously broad patents. In that sense HTC is being perceived as defending itself to the bully on the playground by throwing back punches.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#44

Post by nkassis » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:35 PM UTC

streptomycin wrote: post #29

Hawramani wrote: post #25

Wouldn't creating a patent alliance render the evils of this system ineffective? Members of the alliance would work together to acquire patents, and these patents will be used as patent lawsuit deterrents. Any non-member company who sues a member of the alliance will have to face a dozen lawsuits from other alliance members. (Alliance members should sign a legal agreement not to sue other members on patent-based issu…

That sounds kind of like the [Open Invention Network]( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Invention_Network ).

or the mpegla? not sure we want more of those.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#45

Post by kwis » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:35 PM UTC

alanfalcon wrote: post #14

antihero wrote: post #11

It's pretty undeniable that the whole patents thing is now one giant clusterfuck. The problem is, as technology advances, previously "genius" ideas become trivial due to more people being able to solve problems. There was a time in history when things such as spoons were considered an amazing idea, but how utterly fucked would humanity's development have been if stone-age people allowed themselves to be crippled by g…

We'd all be eating porridge with a spork.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=DlttAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&#38...

It appears that's allowable now, since the patent has expired.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#46

Post by algoshift » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:36 PM UTC

I find this comment in the article to be very interesting:

"the reported industry average for invalidations during IP review is around 90 percent."

It would be very interesting to have a look at stats on patent invalidation reviews. If there's solid data showing that the invalidation rate is around 90% this might be useful as evidence that the USPTO is not doing their job by issuing patents that should never have been issued.

A number like 90% should embarrass anyone who might wish to argue that the system is not broken.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#47

Post by jxcole » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:39 PM UTC

Taft wrote: post #21

dpcan wrote: post #7

Let's just stop the import of all computers and phones over Patent rulings. HTC and Apple should stick to their guns and deny imports of their products. Once nobody can buy computers or phones in the U.S. anymore THEN, just MAYBE, Congress will decide to fix this Patent mess.

Considering the increasingly vocal outcry of rampant patent abuse, it's also possible that tech giants begin publicly stating their position towards US patent law: it needn't exist (or one of the many alternatives that have been proposed). If the market can metabolize that, patent law reform isn't far away.

I would agree except that a bunch of companies just bought some patents for $4.5 billion. If patents become ineffective, the value of that purchase is $0. Very few companies are going to look on this as a positive thing.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#48

Post by nkassis » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:40 PM UTC

HTC has some leverage but I have a feeling, after seeing OS 10.7, that Apple cares less about the Mac then their iOS devices. Would they sacrifice the Macs for the chance to block Android?

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#49

Post by politician » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:41 PM UTC

buddylw wrote: post #33

Maybe we can get to the "mutually assured destruction" phase of patents where everyone has so many ridiculous patents that any lawsuit is sure to ruin everyone? Of course, that doesn't stop patent trolls (terrorist rent seekers) with no skin in the game, but at least this drama would end.

There's an idea, start calling patent trolls "patent terrorism" to leverage the current climate of fear for our own purposes.

Re: Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents

#50

Post by Steko » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:42 PM UTC

Pewpewarrows wrote: post #43

GHFigs wrote: post #31

It's amusing that when there is a ruling in HTC's favor the headline is: "Judge Finds Apple in Violation of HTC's Newly Acquired Patents"...but when there was a ruling in Apple's favor it was: "Apple's Plot to Kill Top Android Maker HTC Nears Fruition With Win" The latter being illustrated with a picture of Steve Jobs as the Emperor from Star Wars. Classy.

As others have noted, it's because Apple decided to get their hands dirty first claiming intellectual property with ridiculously broad patents. In that sense HTC is being perceived as defending itself to the bully on the playground by throwing back punches.

First, HTC didn't even have these patents until recently.

Second, Android clearly went with a strategy of cloning the iPhone, of course Apple struck first. Is Apple the bad guy for also wanting to close the fake Apple stores in China?

The question isn't who struck first, the question is whether each parties patents are valid or not and whether they are infringed or not. Defending poor journalism doesn't get us closer to that.