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After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

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Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#341

Post by horrified »

user-the-name wrote: post #332
horrified wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I trust that the people felt his behaviour was awful. If they don't like working with him, they can switch jobs. Or even complain to higher ups and what not. What is not OK imo is this appeal to some imaginary "societal moral court" that should somehow punish the guy.

Why are you arguing that awful behaviour should have consequences for those it is direct at, rather than for the person who commits it?

I said they felt he is awful. Maybe he felt they are awful, too. It is a thing that happens in human relationships, that people end up disliking each other. We have only heard one side of the story here.

It is a pretty normal thing that people don't get along with each other, for whatever reason. Just because one party goes public and frames the other as a horrible person, doesn't necessarily mean they really are.

If nobody who is disliked by somebody could become boss, there would only be very few candidates left.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#342

Post by dimitrios1 »

ip26 wrote: post #250
dimitrios1 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same reason people defend Bill Gates or Bezos, or any other rich or powerful person for that matter. People want what they have, and they feel if they attack them, recognize their immorality or destitute nature of their souls they are in a sense attacking their future self image, and it feels inconvenient. Especially where where there are a lot of valley Elizabeth Holmes types on here that fancy they are pot…

Alternate theory: We want to believe the rich and powerful deserve to be rich and powerful. If they didn't deserve it, that would imply 1) the system is not fair and 2) we can't ever get what they have even if we become deserving. Thus, we defend their credibility & merits so that we can go on believing in the meritocracy.

It's a good point, but also believe it fits within the framework I was (poorly) attempting to describe. If you don't believe those people deserve their wealth and power, then when we achieve wealth and power within our own spheres, we will have doubts about our status as well, and again, it is inconvenient to the human psyche to believe these things about oneself.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#343

Post by cma »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #315
cma wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're condemning people who argue against you here, not because of anything they said, but because of your assumptions about what position they might have taken in a different controversy about different people. Can you prove this beyond a reasonable doubt? Should you have to?

Well, I’m not sure what “have to” means. If I got a Washington Post article published about how suchandsuch person made a HN comment I don’t like, I would call that a clear case of harassment, no matter how much proof I had that the comment was wrong.

So the law should be Washington Post has a criminal-trial style burden of proof for articles?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#344

Post by sjg007 »

truetraveller wrote: post #158
mLuby wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> screaming by a very senior exec is common place and cannot be called abusive It is possible that what's been acceptable for a long time is no longer okay. At the very least, I'd say tantrum are unprofessional; After all, if the exec is losing their shit over something minor, how can I trust them to keep a level head if things really get challenging? But maybe some people respond better to the stick than to the carr…

I'm against screaming. But doing someone once or twice in year, is not the same as doing something everyday. There's no mention, at all, about how frequent his outbursts / yelling / screaming was. This is precisely the issue.

I think people need to read up on psychopaths and sociopaths. Realize it’s a spectrum but this behavior is the basis of cults. People here would be good to educate themselves.

In the UK this is called anti social behavior.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#345

Post by user-the-name »

horrified wrote: post #341
user-the-name wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you arguing that awful behaviour should have consequences for those it is direct at, rather than for the person who commits it?

I said they felt he is awful. Maybe he felt they are awful, too. It is a thing that happens in human relationships, that people end up disliking each other. We have only heard one side of the story here. It is a pretty normal thing that people don't get along with each other, for whatever reason. Just because one party goes public and frames the other as a horrible person, doesn't necessarily mean they really are. If…

What, exactly, is the other part of the story that you imagine would make his behaviour not awful?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#346

Post by horrified »

user-the-name wrote: post #345
horrified wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said they felt he is awful. Maybe he felt they are awful, too. It is a thing that happens in human relationships, that people end up disliking each other. We have only heard one side of the story here. It is a pretty normal thing that people don't get along with each other, for whatever reason. Just because one party goes public and frames the other as a horrible person, doesn't necessarily mean they really are. If…

What, exactly, is the other part of the story that you imagine would make his behaviour not awful?

There was not that much context to the story to begin with, so it is unclear how awful he really was.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#347

Post by user-the-name »

horrified wrote: post #346
user-the-name wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, exactly, is the other part of the story that you imagine would make his behaviour not awful?

There was not that much context to the story to begin with, so it is unclear how awful he really was.

Yes there was. There was a bunch of people who say he is. That is context.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#348

Post by Volundr »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #339
Volundr wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Have you stopped to think for a sec that some of us like screaming I don't care if you "like" screaming. There are lots of things I like to do that aren't appropriate in the workplace. If you want to go to a "scream club" and scream your heart out you do you. In the workplace as a corporate executive act like an adult. > and in some cultures a lot of screaming is common place By all means enlighten me as to in what…

screaming in a corporate setting is common for lebanon. Im willing to bet the same is true for israel, croatia, and serbia

I'm dubious of this, but cannot prove or disprove it so I'll take your word for it. Given this is an executive is a large US company, it doesn't change the discussion any.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#349

Post by etothepii »

etothepii wrote: post #227
jspash wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a common thing outside Silicon Valley? The US? Having worked almost ny entire professional life outside of the States I have never, not once, heard of this happening. And it would absolutely not be tolerated in any professional organisation that I’ve been part of. Or have I just been lucky not to have come across this type of behaviour?

You have just been lucky, back office technology when I used to work for a large bank in the UK there was a manager who would routinely shout at everyone. He was repeatedly promoted and seen as a person who "got things done." I really pitied the juniors who learned to model this as what "good" looked like, I suspect it has genuinely harmed their long term life prospects. In response to complaints it was always, "he's…

I suspect this is now to be known as the Cuomo defence.
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