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Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained (2020)

reuters.com

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Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained (2020)

#131

Post by charbonneau »

nomoreplease wrote: post #3

This really is something Tim needs to address before he again stands on stage and give lip service to Privacy with a capital P. We also need hardball journalists to start asking Tim these tough questions instead of fawning over AirPods And we need employees to start demanding this internally

Apple is doing the right thing. About 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 13 boys experience child sexual abuse in the US at some point in childhood (underreported) [1].

What's more important? Your right to "privacy" (which you can still invoke by simply not using iCloud) or their right to a normal life?

And yes, their CSAM detection has lots of false-positives, but it will evolve. It will be doubleplusgood.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/childsexualabuse/fast...

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained (2020)

#132

Post by onethought »

vineyardmike wrote: post #126
onethought wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s right let’s ask for the source of the extremely believable claim of only launched in US[0]. But no one sourcing the “China is pressuring Apple to do this”. As stated in the article Apple have said it is US only and will be switched on country by country… so surely if this was “BeCAusE ChIna!!!” It’d be switched on there first right? [0] https://9to5mac.com/2021/08/09/apple-csam-faq/?_gl=1*l17q2t*... .

Well, its actually extremely believable that its launching everywhere that gets iOS 15. And your confidence indicated you had a source ;) > so surely if this was “BeCAusE ChIna!!!” It’d be switched on there first right? Is all of your comments on here arguments?

Not at all. But the consistent “China are evil, and that is the reason These pure US companies do bad things” is infuriating. Then when you point out the fallacy of this kind of thinking getting one word: “source” adds to the frustration.

Even if it was launched globally it didn’t at all invalidate my point. They would ban the entire App in question, not back door it. See Facebook/Twitter as a well known example.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained (2020)

#133

Post by birdyrooster »

The answer is simple. Disable iCloud/iMessage, backup/restore your files the old fashioned way, and use Telegram or something for messaging. Don’t even opt into any of the ways they can spy on you.

iCloud and iMessage suck anyways, you aren’t really losing anything of value

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained (2020)

#134

Post by 88840-8855 »

busymom0 wrote: post #22
g42gregory wrote: post #16

I was patiently waiting for the M1 16in MacBook Pro to come out. After reading all these revelations, I am now considering not buying the new MacBook Pro and instead, just stick with Linux.

I am an app developer who was thinking of upgrading to the next M1 Mac mini coming out later this year. For my work, I pretty much need an Apple hardware. However after this whole privacy debacle, I have started looking into Hackintosh and whether I can build one to for building my apps. If anyone has experience with developing for iOS/MacOS on hackintosh, please let me know your experience.

I would switch away if there was a good alternative with 1) nice design, 2) great UI, 3) nice UX, 4) good service.

But unfortunately, there is nothing out there that "just works". And how can anything exist if Apple has the size of a small nation.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained (2020)

#135

Post by YokoSix »

h4x0r12345 wrote: post #72
g42gregory wrote: post #16

I was patiently waiting for the M1 16in MacBook Pro to come out. After reading all these revelations, I am now considering not buying the new MacBook Pro and instead, just stick with Linux.

Linux is coming to the M1. We need to sponsor this project https://asahilinux.org

Great project. I‘d love to use Linux on a M1 and hope the developer makes it happen. Even adore the name.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained (2020)

#136

Post by Dah00n »

charbonneau wrote: post #131
nomoreplease wrote: post #3

This really is something Tim needs to address before he again stands on stage and give lip service to Privacy with a capital P. We also need hardball journalists to start asking Tim these tough questions instead of fawning over AirPods And we need employees to start demanding this internally

Apple is doing the right thing. About 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 13 boys experience child sexual abuse in the US at some point in childhood (underreported) [1]. What's more important? Your right to "privacy" (which you can still invoke by simply not using iCloud) or their right to a normal life? And yes, their CSAM detection has lots of false-positives, but it will evolve. It will be doubleplusgood. [1] https://www.cdc.go…

>What's more important? Your right to "privacy" (which you can still invoke by simply not using iCloud) or their right to a normal life?

My right to privacy of course because the other option is a strawman. What you are doing is the typical slippery slope of selling out something for everyone because of a small minority of criminals.

"Should criminal Mr. X be allowed to do Bad-Thing-At-Level-10 to Small-Amount or should we do Bad-Thing-At-Level-1 to Everyone?" None of these are correct. Both are or should be illegal.

Did you look into this? Because those who know how this system work says that not only will Apple's system not work it is also clearly illegal:

https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/929-On...

This is getting rolled out in the US, with one of (if not the) biggest populations of innocent people being put in prison in the western world. Where mass-surveillance is, well, massive. If this hasn't specifically been made to be abused as a backdoor it will quickly any way.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained (2020)

#137

Post by sunshineforever »

new299 wrote: post #10

Some have speculated that with the introduction of the PSI/CSAM system Apple will enable E2EE backups. Given the lack of an explicit statement on Apple's part and their history regarding E2EE backups (this article, and other statements). It seems really unlikely to me that Apple will enable E2EE backups. Under E2EE, assuming the device key is randomly generated, if you have one device (as many users do) and you lose…

So I can encrypt my files but does that mean it'll still be proactively scanned for MFing child pornography without any prior evidence?

I don't want that on my phone because I'm not a criminal.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained (2020)

#138

Post by Maxburn »

birdyrooster wrote: post #133

The answer is simple. Disable iCloud/iMessage, backup/restore your files the old fashioned way, and use Telegram or something for messaging. Don’t even opt into any of the ways they can spy on you. iCloud and iMessage suck anyways, you aren’t really losing anything of value

Apple can reach in and turn those on and trigger a backup whenever they want.

I'm actually curious how telegram and signal deal with this, I haven't researched that yet.

End to end doesn't work if the endpoint is compromised, and apple has that baked in as a "feature".

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained (2020)

#139

Post by Maxburn »

rubatuga wrote: post #55

There's a way to make fully encrypted backups of your iPhone locally, check out my blog post from my self-hosting series: https://www.naut.ca/blog/2020/03/20/self-hosting-series-part... This works well on Linux, and iOS 14. You can skip to the section `Compiling idevicebackup2`.

Yes there is, but Apple can reach in and turn on cloud backup and trigger a backup whenever they want.

Re: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained (2020)

#140

Post by jopsen »

> However, a former Apple employee said it was possible the encryption project was dropped for other reasons, such as concern that more customers would find themselves locked out of their data more often.

Sounds more plausible to me.

Most of Apples customers are normal end-users, I can see how loosing access is worse for them as compared to data being available for a search warrant.

I suspect "risk of loosing the key" vs "risk hackers get access to the backup" is really what you want to weight here.

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