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Messaging and chat control

patrick-breyer.de

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Re: Messaging and chat control

#261

Post by edanm »

anfelor wrote: post #98

The scary thing about this is that many people have images that look like child porn at home: Family photos of naked grandchildren playing at the sea or in the mud, as well as sexting between consenting teenagers. There is no way automatic classification can distinguish these from real child porn, because they look almost identical and thus many private pictures will be shared with the government. This not only infri…

Not a lawyer, but my understanding is that in the States, sending naked pictures of teens is illegal, even if it's a picture of yourself. If you send naked selfies to someone, you could be charged with distribution of child pornography if you are a teenager.

I'm also fairly sure I heard that even possessing naked selfies is considered illegal, at least in some states, e.g. this article about a teenager facing 10 years in prison for having pictures of himself naked at 16 years old on his phone: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/teenager-p...

Re: Messaging and chat control

#262

Post by slickrick216 »

the-dude wrote: post #100
bserge wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, people of a certain background get treated like shit by the supposedly universal healthcare systems in Europe, so there's that.

Could you please specify 'certain' instead of hinting? Sources would be great too.

I think he’s talking about anti vaxers. Which I’m not. Have the J&J one and doing quite well. Just believe it’s a choice. They also quite often use it to invoke being from a working class background. Which I am actually.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#263

Post by slickrick216 »

ForHackernews wrote: post #235
kristjank wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really, though? Both child abuse and the pandemic are serious issues with real world victims, and both are riddled with privacy, anonymity and personal integrity issues. If we don't act against them, people will die/get hurt, and if we act against it in a Macchiavelian manner, democracy and quality of our life suffers enormously. My observation is that in the name of: a) Covid b) Counterterrorism c) Child abuse…

Yes it's absolutely hyperbole to compare the racist policy of apartheid to reasonable restrictions on people who voluntarily choose to avoid vaccines for mostly-nonsense reasons. Do you also oppose driver's license restrictions? Or existing pre-covid vaccine requirements? I struggle to see how these new restrictions are so onerous.

Equating drivers licenses to vaccine passports is a false equivalency.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#264

Post by the-dude »

slickrick216 wrote: post #262
the-dude wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please specify 'certain' instead of hinting? Sources would be great too.

I think he’s talking about anti vaxers. Which I’m not. Have the J&J one and doing quite well. Just believe it’s a choice. They also quite often use it to invoke being from a working class background. Which I am actually.

How are they treated like shit?

Re: Messaging and chat control

#265

Post by jq-r »

thegrimmest wrote: post #229
shigawire wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socialism is not about centralized authority. That is just how it ends up when you have oligarchs needing a better brand than naked kleptocracy.

It's basically about surrendering individual power/consent to collective decision making, isn't it?

That's actually called living in a civilization.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#266

Post by thegrimmest »

jq-r wrote: post #265
thegrimmest wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's basically about surrendering individual power/consent to collective decision making, isn't it?

That's actually called living in a civilization.

Strong disagree. Living in a civilization means you have agreed to peacefully coexist with other members, and resolve disputes via due process. From there, whether you can opt out of military service or health insurance varies quite a bit within civilizations. This is where the question of "within your civilization, how free are you?" (vs. how obligated) starts to become relevant.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#267

Post by honkdaddy »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #230
anfelor wrote: post #98

The scary thing about this is that many people have images that look like child porn at home: Family photos of naked grandchildren playing at the sea or in the mud, as well as sexting between consenting teenagers. There is no way automatic classification can distinguish these from real child porn, because they look almost identical and thus many private pictures will be shared with the government. This not only infri…

> The article mentions that 40% of CP investigations in Germany are started against minors (implied: through sexting), which shows that this concern is not purely theoretical at all. I've read news about this. Teenager sends nude photos to her boyfriend, calls the cops after the break up and they proceed to nearly ruin his life by threatening lifetime sex offender registration. The implication that the girl produced…

That's a terrifying story. Do you have a link or any other details?

Re: Messaging and chat control

#268

Post by angry_octet »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #234
BiteCode_dev wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nudity is 18+ in extremist countries like the Emirates or the USA. Sorry but in France, 30 years ago before american culture started to dictate where money come from, you would see genitals from all genders and ages in movies. Nobody found it offensive, because we didn't have a catholic puritan morality to impose its sick twisted vision of the human body on us. Meanwhile we sold car by showing cars, not hot girls. Bu…

> catholic puritan morality Might want to check your terms here.

Indeed. But it strikes me that the places with the most rigorous enforcement of theological dominance also have the worst child abuse problems. Or, as an AI would decide, men in robes can't be trusted.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#269

Post by azinman2 »

pseudalopex wrote: post #256
cvwright wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Apple's defense here, there seems to be a reason they're using the longer acronym CSAM. It means not just pictures of people without clothes on, but actual images/video of children being abused. Stuff that would likely provoke you or me or other normal people into acts of extreme violence against the perpetrators if we ever got the chance. The real danger with Apple's system is that there's zero accountability in…

> It means not just pictures of people without clothes on, but actual images/video of children being abused. Who said that? They're the same legally. People have said NCMEC's database includes entirely legal images. And groups like NCMEC have tried to rename child pornography for years.

But the point is there’s an existing database. Either you have a photo in that database, or you don’t. So your kids naked photos don’t get triggered. And even if that photo is legal, not only is there human verification and minimum quantities required, it would be very strange for you to have in your iCloud photos that were part of CP collection sets regardless of content.

Re: Messaging and chat control

#270

Post by angry_octet »

josephcsible wrote: post #212
ryandrake wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might also turn into a good teachable moment for teens about privacy, sharing, and technology. I don’t take a picture on a smartphone of anything that I wouldn’t want to make public, and I surely wouldn’t share or post it anywhere. If it leaves your device, it’s effectively public, regardless of whether whoever you sent it to tells you they’ll keep it “private”.

> If it leaves your device Even this is naïve with Apple's new plan. How long do you really think they'll wait before a software update makes it apply to even things that don't leave your device?

This would be a much bigger step though, and any brand doing it, even Apple, would face very negative market effect.

It couldn't be legislated in the US because it would be unconstitutional to do so, almost impossible in the EU, possible in the UK/AU, even Canada (with the help of some creative rights busting from the Supreme Court, as they recently demonstrated).

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