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All that is wrong with the Recruitment Industry

voltsteve.blogspot.com

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Re: All that is wrong with the Recruitment Industry

#11

Post by rickmb »

pr0filer_ wrote: post #4

In the Netherlands the situation is pretty much the same. I personally never use recruiters to find a job. I had put my CV shortly up on a website and got harassed months after with job vacancies that didn't even relate to my CV. Most developers around me also hold a grudge against recruiters and see it, like mentioned in your article, as a necessary evil. It's not nice being treated as livestock.

In the Netherlands, the recruitment market has in the past few years been flooded with extremely aggressive recruiters from the UK. The majority the recruiters I encounter are British, even though they are recruiting Dutch developers for Dutch employers.

Re: All that is wrong with the Recruitment Industry

#12

Post by Peroni »

pr0filer_ wrote: post #10
Peroni wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a global issue. A lot can be done to change it though. Have a look at my previous post 'Questions from my experiences as a recruiter on Hacker News' for tips on how to deal with sub-par recruiters. http://voltsteve.blogspot.com/2011/07/questions-from-my-expe...

I think the advice you give is interesting, though i'm more curious to hear why you think people should use a recruiter in the first place? I can see the potential training or retouching of a CV, but i feel somewhat confident that i got that right. So then, what's left? And isn't the harassment a trade-off for, as what i perceive, being too lazy to find a job yourself?

Assuming you are dealing with a relatively decent recruiter:

EMPLOYER BENEFITS

1. Access to candidates who aren't active on job boards.

2. Significant reduction in the amount of time spent screening candidates.

3. Some companies want to keep a low profile and don't want to advertise the fact that they are hiring.

EMPLOYEE BENEFITS

1. Good recruiters will have the ear of the top CTO's & Directors so your details can be put directly in front of the right people.

2. A huge amount of work isn't publicly advertised so you need a recruiter to connect you to said roles.

3. Career & CV advice. Recruiters should be advising you on what you can do to improve your chances of getting a better job or salary.

Re: All that is wrong with the Recruitment Industry

#13

Post by rickmb »

What I am missing from this analysis is the underhanded methods used by many recruiters.

I've had recruiters publishing our job postings via various job boards in order to intercept potential candidates. I've had a candidate who was told the recruiters posting he responded to was no match for him, when in reality we had simply told the recruiter we had no need for their services. Luckily the candidate managed to Google us. I've had my own CV offered to other companies without my permission. Many a LinkedIn group is set up by recruiters as their own private fishing pool.

What actually surprises me most is the apparent naivety of these recruiters: a lot of these job postings and CVs are easily traced back to the source. Some are very recognizable (it's a small world), most are easily googled.

Re: All that is wrong with the Recruitment Industry

#14

Post by rjd »

Peroni wrote: post #2

Thanks for all the attention folks! I'm always keen to hear feedback & thoughts or even suggestions for future posts from HN.

Thanks for taking a stand. Trying to write a nice reply without going into a recruiter rant.. I've deleted my response 3 times now :)

One thing you left out was laziness and stupidity. Recruiters that can't understand requirements and blag into an interview you aren't skilled for. Or won't get a JD so you have to go to the interview to find out what the hell the position is about. Wastes everyones time, so many of them are like that as well.

London recruiters generally have a special place in hell :) But if you want a good recruiter story...

I was in London during the end of .com boom and the aftermath. I ended up making good friends with a recruiter who couldn't place me as I was young and times weren't the best.

He had an allowance for smoozing premium clients, several hundred quid a week. So he jacked up my CV, altered my records in the system, and we'd blow that huge recruiter bounty you mentioned on dinner, booze, strip clubs, smoozing other clients. It was awesome (and fraudulent) but still awesome.

Another good story is same guy introduced me to a client, we got drinking at lunch as part of the interview, turned into an all nighter, client broke out the coke stash, partied like the .com bubble was collapsing around us. Best interview of my life.

Next day I got a call saying I couldn't have the position because we got on to well and it wasn't good for boss worker relations... but was I keen to hit the town in the weekend LOL

Ahh.. the good old days, god bless London. But I'll never go back.

Re: All that is wrong with the Recruitment Industry

#15

Post by Peroni »

rickmb wrote: post #13

What I am missing from this analysis is the underhanded methods used by many recruiters. I've had recruiters publishing our job postings via various job boards in order to intercept potential candidates. I've had a candidate who was told the recruiters posting he responded to was no match for him, when in reality we had simply told the recruiter we had no need for their services. Luckily the candidate managed to Goog…

Good point. There are a few more I could add to that list that are a bit more controversial which I'll address in a week or two with a new blog post.

As for the ones you've mentioned, let me at least try and explain the method behind the madness.

I've had recruiters publishing our job postings via various job boards in order to intercept potential candidates

This happens all the time and I bet the recruiters version has a slightly higher salary too right? The bottom line is that this is actually an illegal practice, at least in the UK but it isn't policed. It's against the law to advertise a vacancy that doesn't exist or duplicate a vacancy that you are not recruiting directly for. Why do they do it? Like you said, they want the candidates to come to them first so they can then claim them and introduce them to you for a fee.

I had a candidate who was told the recruiters posting he responded to was no match for him, when in reality we had simply told the recruiter we had no need for their services.

This is just pure laziness. Most recruiters hardly bother to give negative feedback in the first place as there is nothing they can personally gain from it. I think all feedback is useful personally.

I've had my own CV offered to other companies without my permission.

Another ridiculously common tactic. The idea is to test out the CV, generate interest and if they get any bites they will then call you and try and get you on board. Lazy recruitment again.

Re: All that is wrong with the Recruitment Industry

#17

Post by ig1 »

Peroni wrote: post #15
rickmb wrote: post #13

What I am missing from this analysis is the underhanded methods used by many recruiters. I've had recruiters publishing our job postings via various job boards in order to intercept potential candidates. I've had a candidate who was told the recruiters posting he responded to was no match for him, when in reality we had simply told the recruiter we had no need for their services. Luckily the candidate managed to Goog…

Good point. There are a few more I could add to that list that are a bit more controversial which I'll address in a week or two with a new blog post. As for the ones you've mentioned, let me at least try and explain the method behind the madness. I've had recruiters publishing our job postings via various job boards in order to intercept potential candidates This happens all the time and I bet the recruiters version…

The last is also illegal in the UK.

Re: All that is wrong with the Recruitment Industry

#19

Post by dnadolny »

tomjen3 wrote: post #6

I am not sure I buy the thesis. Greed and money are universal, yet most businesses don't need the call centric approach. Not even companies which sells very expensive things like, say, diamonds. My guess is that recruitment doesn't generate much value, which is a bigger problem than being greedy. After all, what does recruitment do that a job board can't? Looking through a resume for keywords is easy to do with a com…

I disagree with recruitment not adding value. Imagine a recruiter that sent you 5 qualified candidates who were all interested in your job. You would spend a little bit of time in the interview to verify they were qualified, but mainly you just have to decide who is the best fit for your team. Compare that to hours of reviewing resumes, tens of hours of interviews on unqualified candidates, etc.

A recruiter could offer a lot of value, the problem is that it's difficult to show that you're a useful recruiter. This is an econ problem[1], where you have people offering something valuable and people offering something not very valuable and you can't tell the difference. What's needed is a way of signaling that they're going to be a good recruiter.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons

Re: All that is wrong with the Recruitment Industry

#20

Post by ZoFreX »

I was on the phone to a recruitment agency and genuinely heard a bull horn going off followed by cheering, I presume signifying a big "sale". This is one of the best companies I've had dealings with, too. The worst edited my CV before sending it to companies without telling me first - nothing like being asked "So why were you fired from your last position?" in a job interview when you left due to illness in the family.

Edit: Not to mention the INSANE amount of companies that claim to be "specialist developer recruitment agencies" (or similar) but only accept CVs in .doc format. Not even docx, they need the original proprietary .doc format. They refuse to believe that it's difficult for me to send one rather than a PDF, and apparently "[their] systems can't handle PDF files or DOCX files". Sorry, what?

Anyway, it's far more work than its worth for me to produce a Word document from a .tex, as the only solutions I've found are manual, but I doubt I'm missing much by not interacting with these companies.

I am actually currently looking for work so if anyone knows of UK recruitment agencies that don't entirely suck, please let me (and everyone else) know who they are!

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