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Crystal arrangement results in more power from ferroelectric solar cells

pv-magazine.com

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Re: Crystal arrangement results in more power from ferroelectric solar cells

#61

What is: Power output per m2? Durability (life span)? Production cost? At least theoretical ...

From the underlying paper[1], I found this excerpt:

“The photocurrent or the short-circuit current density (JSC) extracted from BTO is around 0.415 μA/cm2. … The JSC value from SBC555 is around 11.03 μA/cm2 and is about 25 times higher than measured in BTO. The open-circuit voltage (VOC) in the case of BTO was found to be around −0.007 V, as opposed to −0.058 V in SBC555.”

Here, BTO is the existing material and SBC555 is the new material from the paper. Multiplying JSC by VOC to get power density , we see that BTO yields 2.9 nW/cm^2, while SBC555 yields 639.74 nW/cm^2.

For reference, according to [2], we have that “typical external parameters of a crystalline silicon solar cell as shown are; Jsc ≈ 35 mA/cm2, Voc up to 0.65 V.” Notice the unit difference of mA/cm^2 here vs uA/cm^2 above. Multiplying these parameters yields 22,750,000 nW/cm^2. So we see that these cells are still approximately 100,000x worse at producing power than the current crystalline silicon cells.

[1] https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/7/23/eabe4206

[2] https://ocw.tudelft.nl/wp-content/uploads/solar_energy_secti...

Re: Crystal arrangement results in more power from ferroelectric solar cells

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here we are, trying to improve solar cells to avoid global warming, and dissidents like you want to add a sun to the solar system.

It's not the solar system's fault that the inhabitants of one of the bodies in the system are bad stewards. Also, if you have 30% effeciency from the light of one sun, wouldn't the additional light also improve the solar cell since there is now more light to get 30% out of? I mean, more is always better, right?

I know your comment is in jest, but in point of fact the additional heat from another star would almost certainly reduce the efficiency of the panels.

Re: Crystal arrangement results in more power from ferroelectric solar cells

#63
post #43

I did a quick Google for the Power Conversion Efficiency of Barium Titanate based solar cells and they are currently mostly in single-digit percentages [1]. A thousandfold increase would be over 1000%. Unless I'm missing something important, they probably mean 1000x over a super basic BaTiO3 system, not 1000x over the current state of the art. [1] For example, this 5.13% PCE from "hierarchical barium titanate micro f…

To get the 1000x figure, the research is comparing photocurrents from bulk BTO and their special crystal-aligned BTO at a specific wavelength of incident light (306nm). They also compare photocurrents under a solar simulator and achieve 100x increase vs bulk BTO. At no point do they make comparison to state of the art BTO cells, which almost certainly aren't just bulk BTO but are likely doped, nanostructured, or have…

That is true. The research is good. But the headline, the article itself, and especially this comment by the author

> Our apologies for not making this clear. The photovoltaic effect was increased by 1000 times compared to previous output achieved from cells made of ferroelectric crystals, not from prevailing solar cells made of silicon or other conventional materials.

misleadingly make it seem like they made 1000x progress from the current best.

Re: Crystal arrangement results in more power from ferroelectric solar cells

#64
post #16

Reminds me of my masters research at university. My work was based on hybrid organic-inorganic solar devices based on boron subphthalocyanine chloride and an optimised optical spacer layer. One day, one variation of the type of cell I was producing was over double the output efficiency of what we usually expected. Was exciting until we realised the solar testing rig had been erroneously set to the equivalent output o…

One day… two suns. Talk about playing God. :-) That sounds like fascinating research.

There's something hilarious in adding a sun so you can improve the efficiency of your solar panels, so that you can switch to renewable energy and offset warming caused by your current single sun (and polution).

Re: Crystal arrangement results in more power from ferroelectric solar cells

#65
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I do not know how much technical my question can be, there is no tone, there is 14 words in total. I was googling and I could not find anything useful so I hoped I could get some answer from some technical person (material science/physic person). In my mind finding those number is the first thing I would do on the test bench, they give you prospect of technology some kind a range you would attract investors…

I suppose the tone could come exactly from the brevity. Imagine stepping up to a bakery and hearing “what?” instead of “how can I help you today dear gentleperson?”. Which one would you find more snarky?

Even if the bakery employee yelled "What?" at me, I would not hear snark in that. I would probably hear rude, but not snark. I would also be a little less surprised if it was a very busy place and the employee was visibly harried by the commotion. Or if I was just in any store in NYC.

There's a difference between terse and to the point vs being rude. It's not the terse response's fault the recipient cannot tell the difference.

Also, are we using snark as a synonym for rude nowadays? I'm going to need to update my definitions as I was always understanding snark to be sarcasm. I just want to be using the same words as everyone else on the internet so I don't offend. (that was snark).

Edit: actually, if I went to a store and someone asked "how can I help you today dear gentleperson?", I would immediately assume they themselves were being snarky. That's like saying "bless your heart". It's just dripping with snark.

Re: Crystal arrangement results in more power from ferroelectric solar cells

#66
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A similar question was in the comments of the article and reply from the Author: --- Ralph A Hutton August 6, 2021 at 1:40 am 1000 times? That means a normal size panel ,area about one square meter, that produces 200 watts , would be capable of an output of 200 kW. I look forward to that. I believe, and this needs confirming, the maximum available power from one square meter is about one kW. What have I misunderstood…

Can someone explain this to me like I'm 5 for me?

in the email above, "that produces 200 watts" is the wrong baseline. That's the current value for a different technology.

Re: Crystal arrangement results in more power from ferroelectric solar cells

#67
The 1000x efficiency headline is from Figure 4 of the source PDF:

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/7/23/eabe42...

Units are Amps per miliwatt on the Y axis and electron volts on the X axis. The black BTO line has a minimum of around 1x10^-10 at 2.8 eV, which is the energy of a photon in 450 nm blue light, and the red SBC222 line has a minimum of around 1x10^-7. Yes, the difference between 10^-10 and 10^-7 is 1000x; good job, headline! But no, that's not the key takeaway from the article.

Solar cells have an efficiency curve based on their bandgap and the energy in the incident light. It's theoretically a straight line, and regular silicon cells get pretty close to it, see the figure here:

https://www.pveducation.org/pvcdrom/solar-cell-operation/spe...

Note the units in A/W, not A/mW, also, the research is at a temperature of 77k, the boiling point of liquid nitrogen, while the above plot is close to room temperature. At 450 nm = 2.a silicon cell produces about 0.35 x 10^-3 A/mW, which represents an efficiency of something like 30% in the real world.

This research and that figure 4 plot fundamentally show that conventional barium titanate = BaTiO3 = BTO, produces very little energy from 450 nm light. The researchers fixed this problem with a multilayer cell using strontium titanate, SrTiO3, or STO, then BTO, then calcium titanate, CaTiO3 or CTO, in an STO_2/BTO_2/CTO_2 crystal lattice stack. That's the breakthrough result; they were able to bridge this gap in energy output and take in more wavelengths of visible light.

The actual efficiency of the starting point was about a million times worse than a good silicon cell. There's plenty of room for improvement when you start that low! The end result is still on the order of a thousand times worse than a silicon cell. A production dye-sensitized solar cell today reaches about 10% efficiency, a monocrystaline silicon cell gets about 22%, but the DSSC has potential to be much cheaper to produce, can be flexible, and is not as well understood. This research may help to close that efficiency gap.

Re: Crystal arrangement results in more power from ferroelectric solar cells

#68

The other day, I watched this documentary on a huge off-shore wind project off the coast of the UK. It uses some of the largest windmills ever created. This project has a mind-boggling amount of complexities and involved a special large ship, one of the only kinds of its type, to move things around—very impressive project. It made me realize just how revolutionary solar is. Also, why it can compete and be so cheap co…

I was told that an offshore oil exploration drilling operation costs as much as the most recent Mars rover mission ever will. When it comes to keeping the world moving, there's room for ungodly amounts of complexity.

Solar cell installation is pretty easy, but there is some non-negligible complexity in producing them.

Re: Crystal arrangement results in more power from ferroelectric solar cells

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But red widgets might be cheaper to mass produce. Maybe. I don't know I'm knee deep in analogies now.

But how long do red widgets last compared to the green widgets? Since red widgets have been so woefully under performing compared to the green widgets, has anyone seriously looked at the red widget for long term viability or is this just flash in the pan type performance? Just to beat up the analogy further.

From what the article stated, it seems the longest term testing they did was firing a laser at the red widget for 6 months straight and it maintained constant current the entire time

Re: Crystal arrangement results in more power from ferroelectric solar cells

#70
post #61

What is: Power output per m2? Durability (life span)? Production cost? At least theoretical ...

From the underlying paper[1], I found this excerpt: “The photocurrent or the short-circuit current density (JSC) extracted from BTO is around 0.415 μA/cm2. … The JSC value from SBC555 is around 11.03 μA/cm2 and is about 25 times higher than measured in BTO. The open-circuit voltage (VOC) in the case of BTO was found to be around −0.007 V, as opposed to −0.058 V in SBC555.” Here, BTO is the existing material and SBC55…

Thank you sir!
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