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Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

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Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I deliberately chose something that just above trivially simple to show that there was diversity of expression even at that level. That is, even given a technical term with a precise agreed upon definition, the description of that term (eg, in English) does not have a precise agreed-upon form. Incorrect use of the latter may imply plagiarism, and this thread appears to concern that aspect. Most definitions are n…

> Your statement, if true, would mean that most dictionaries would use exactly the same words to describe a given, well-specified scientific concept, yes? No, it definitely doesn't unless you significantly extend what I said in a very uncharitable way to reach that point. > Most definitions are not as simple as "cosine similarity". But plenty are. As I said previously, you are going to be hard pressed to constate pla…

Then I don't know what you mean by "definition".

I showed several examples of definitions for frame dragging, including ones where re-use would, IMO, constitute "a minor form of plagiarism".

Is your view that re-use of those definitions cannot be plagiarism? If so, why not?

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#242

I have encountered something similar to this for a submission that I reviewed for a scientific journal. I will not list any names or give much detail past those generalities, but I pointed out that the authors were misusing a particular technical term. In my review I defined the term and explained it briefly. I asked the authors to revise their submission accordingly. The paper was not bad but the authors did not kno…

So you couldn't ask them to attribute this to you as an anonymous reviewer? And instead wanted them to spend their effort using "their own words" because "inexcusable" and what not? Man, are some people stuck up deep in their own ass. Yeah, a copy-paste isn't nice of them, sure, but are you one fragile snowflake.

They might have wanted to use the phrasing in their own papers. It might now get flagged as plagiarism....

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#243
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the authors plagiarized my definition and explanation almost word for word (from my confidential review). Is there any way the authors could have kept your definition, and somehow credited you, even anonymously? Because rephrasing definitions is the pinnacle of wasted effort, and leads to confusion - you are asking them to say what you said, but without using your words.

That is a good question that I do not have a good answer for, unfortunately. The review process for this journal is supposed to be blind, so crediting me would only reveal me as a reviewer. An anonymous acknowledgment is better than nothing, if the authors only copied a short definition without my permission, but they copied an entire paragraph from my review without my permission. That's just inexcusable. I can unde…

Nature (and some others) now have started the IMHO awful practice to allow reviewers to be named after the paper is accepted. Beside the obvious question of bias etc., this also blurs the lines between author and reviewer.

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#244
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I have said in another comment, the authors did not just copy my short definition but my entire paragraph-length explanation of the concept. I might have let the short definition slide but an entire paragraph is just inexcusable. I agree that this is not a school assignment, so the nature of plagiarism is a bit different. But you hit the nail right on the head. We should be worried that they are pretending to know…

>Now maybe they did spend some time learning it and looking into, but there is no way to know for sure Why are you so concerned on this ? Isn't the goal of a paper is to communicate information? >It only proves that they have copy and paste. Yes they copy paste but it doesn't prove that they don't really understand it. They may very well found your definition is the best way to describe it. As long as the reader of t…

No, it's important to gauge how competent the researchers are, i.e. how trustworthy the remainder of the paper is. The problem with review process is that the reviewers typically cannot reproduce the work itself -- take a physics experiment for example. So they can only do a smell test, and getting basic concepts wrong is a rather bad smell.

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#245
post #62

Some of these tortured phrases are great. My favourites: "flag to clamor" for signal to noise "individual computerized collaborator" for PDA (personal digital assistant) "haze figuring" for cloud computing "information stockroom" for data warehouse "focal preparing unit" for CPU "discourse acknowledgement" for voice recognition "mean square blunder" for MSE (mean square error) "arbitrary right of passage" for random…

I enjoyed finding "counterfeit consciousness" for artificial intelligence. To me it evokes a kind of science fiction that's shown up occasionally on HN[1]. [1] https://qntm.org/mmacevedo

I searched github for "counterfeit consciousness" and stumbled into quite the rabbit hole https://github.com/search?q=counterfeit+consciousness

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#246
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who don't speak English natively could use machine translation, and people plagiarizing could use machine translation. How do they distinguish (if you don't mind saving me digging into the research)?

Phrases like AI and big data are already pretty well defined in almost every major machine translation set. You'd have to forcefully try to thesaurus your way through to make it do that 99% of the time.

But wouldn't the error rate be the same for both legitimate and plagiarized texts? How do these errors distinguish between the two cases?

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#247
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really doubt you can computer generate a Master's thesis. Completing a Master's thesis at an accredited institution is a heck of a lot of work and even a cursory reading of a thesis by an examiner, supervisor, opponent, or other interested party would give the generated content away. Maybe if you get your degree from a diploma mill you could get away with it, but then your degree wouldn't be worth toilet paper anyw…

Computer generated articles from much older technology than GPT3 have made it through peer review https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01436-7

That is different. People who submit computer-generated papers submit them to hundreds of journals. A few of them are bound to have so lax editorial standards that they are let through. They also risk nothing, while the student who is caught computer-generating their thesis will be thrown out. Furthermore, the amount of peer review-like process a thesis or dissertation goes through is an order of magnitude greater than the amount of peer review an article gets.

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#248

I've been seeing this in news articles as well. Swipe someone else's article, run it through a synonym-replacer algorithm, and have Reddit bots post it on a bunch of news subs. Presumably the thesaurus work fools Google's just-a-copy detector. It's the next step in clickbait monetization. Why settle for low-effort content when you can have no -effort content?

Could you share any examples?

Don't have any of the actual content handy, but here's an online tool that advertises itself for that specific purpose: https://spinbot.com/ Google "rewriting tool" for more examples. Apparently it's a lot more common than I'd realized.

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#249
post #182

I have encountered something similar to this for a submission that I reviewed for a scientific journal. I will not list any names or give much detail past those generalities, but I pointed out that the authors were misusing a particular technical term. In my review I defined the term and explained it briefly. I asked the authors to revise their submission accordingly. The paper was not bad but the authors did not kno…

As a native English speaker, but not an academic researcher, I would have naively done the same. To preface: I am speaking in ignorance of the mechanisms of credit and advancement in your field, so I'm undoubtedly overly harsh. I'm not even trying to be fair, because I admittedly don't have the knowledge to do so. I know academia is a different world from private sector industry, but I would think if the point of a c…

> I would think if the point of a confidential review is for you to do anonymous work to improve someone else's credited work

This is one outcome of peer review, and is an explicit goal of (good) peer reviewers. But it's definitely not the main goal of peer review. The main goal of peer review is assessment. Improvement is something that you can strive for as a secondary outcome, but it's not the main point.

This is a significant and important contrast with code review. Peer review is NOT analogous to code review!

NB: The code review style of improvement-focused review also happens in academia! But it happens within groups rather than between groups. I.e., advisors or post-docs in single research group or university critiquing one another's work will behave more like a code review. Peer review is different.

The same is true in industry, btw. Think of peer review as the thing that happens when a regulator reviews the code from a medical device. They're not interested in making pull requests and doing your work for you. Although they do in principle want you to succeed in your goals, and might provide some feedback along those lines, they're making a yes/no decision. Different function.

> their work was improved by incorporating your feedback, you would be happy with the outcome

There are really two concerns here:

1. confidentiality, and

2. plagiarism.

The first item is probably more important than the second. The typical expectation of reviews is that they are anonymous and private unless stated otherwise (eg openreview). It's incredibly bad form to publish a private correspondence without first asking for permission.

Copying a reviewer verbatim without permission is plagiarism, but it's not really something that anyone actually cares about, per se. I've sometimes asked for permission to incorporate components of reviews verbatim into my papers, and never received anything except enthusiastic "of course". I assume the same would be true in the case above. But even in those cases I say something like: "as helpfully observed by an anonymous reviewer of this paper, [insert quote]".

The key point is that I don't go around publishing explicitly confidential correspondences without permission.

> or else why are you participating in a confidential review process in the first place?

Exactly. Confidential.

Again, surely you can see how publishing someone's confidential words is quite rude, even if the person wouldn't mind those words being published if simply asked.

> Like I said, I'm not trying to be fair and don't have the right background to be fair to you. I only speak up because I grew up in an academic family and know that there is a presumption that academic work is more idealistic, more altruistic, and less mercenary than private sector work, and I think it's worth pointing out when the reverse is true.

Academic work is all of those things in terms of goals, not necessarily in terms of process. I don't know anyone who has a passing familiarity with Academia and doesn't realize that it is incredibly competitive.

Altruism and competition are different axes.

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoyed finding "counterfeit consciousness" for artificial intelligence. To me it evokes a kind of science fiction that's shown up occasionally on HN[1]. [1] https://qntm.org/mmacevedo

I searched github for "counterfeit consciousness" and stumbled into quite the rabbit hole https://github.com/search?q=counterfeit+consciousness

Holy cow!
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