Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' • Hacker News Board

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#681

Post by Cycl0ps » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 3:09 PM UTC

lucb1e wrote: post #440

Cycl0ps wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've thought about it myself and the best answer that comes to mind is clear-cutting entire forests, tossing that biomass down a mineshaft, and replanting to start the process over again. All this talk of planting trees removes atmospheric carbon, but until it's out of the system entirely we're one forest fire away from wiping out decades of carbon removal.

You might be interested to learn of Climeworks if you're looking for a more reliable way to remove emissions than planting trees (which is, indeed, mostly not really working as well as too slow).

I've seen those designs but never looked too deep into them. Maybe I've seen too many of the 'collect water from thin air' devices and become cynical. If their 90% efficiency is counting manufacturing and power costs then it could be worthwhile in cities and other areas with high atmospheric carbon levels. Same problem as the trees though, if we leave them out or use them for something they'll break down and be back in the carbon cycle. However we collect the carbon we need to lock it in place.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#682

Post by lkbm » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 3:10 PM UTC

robinsoh wrote: post #646

bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

> Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. USA: 15.50 metric tons (2016) India: 1.82 metric tons (2016) Source: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.ATM.CO2E.PC?location... One Am…

> In terms of your claim that "western countries have reduced carbon emissions" it is important to realize that increasingly developed countries have been outsourcing most of their high polluting industries. https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/4/18/1533104...

If you attribute to the US all the emissions that were outsoureced to other counties, the US has still reduced it's per-capita emissions: https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2

It's still way higher than India, but the claim that we've achieved the drop via outsourcing is wrong.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#683

Post by danuker » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #626

habosa wrote: post #621

Just. Tax. It. We have warmed the earth because we love comfort and money. We will never stop loving those things. So instead let's use the same systems to fix this (or at least slow things down). As an individual my largest carbon impact is air travel. I like to go places, it's one of the main things I work to afford. Every single plane ticket I take should have a tax which is used to offset or capture the carbon em…

How do you make the major polluters pay the tax?

Boycotts and import duties.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#684

Post by triceratops » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

> It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production

To a first approximation, every time you pull out your wallet, you're emitting carbon. The bigger the $ sign, the more carbon you're emitting.

New car > used car

New furniture > used furniture

High energy bill > low energy bill

High grocery bill > low grocery bill

Big house > small house

Long commute > short commute

Expensive vacation > cheap vacation

After you've gotten past the big stuff, there are nuances. Burning your trash is cheaper than paying for trash removal but obviously worse for the environment (better yet; generate less trash). A diet of Twinkies is cheaper than a diet of leafy greens but it'll cost you on healthcare in the long run, so likely worse carbon emissions.

Try to run your household budget as lean as you can, and vote for politicians who support collective action against climate change. I think that's as much as any individual can do.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#685

Post by cblconfederate » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 3:11 PM UTC

shadowfaxRodeo wrote: post #276

The internet causes around 5% of global carbon emmissions. It's invisible, and difficult to measure, so little gets done about it. But if you're a developer who wants to help. Check out: https://sustainablewebdesign.org/ Pretty much all the solutions to making a greener web would make the web better in general. - Send less data (efficient video, images, fonts, etc) - Make fewer requests - Use a CDN (the greenest one…

The internet causes much more. It facilitates turning millions of houses to hotels, cheap flights, cheap rides, high speed intercontinental trade and a relentless behavioral treadmill of selfies in exotic backgrounds. The internet is the biggest driver of consumerism and its biggest beneficiary as attested by the exorbitant valuations of related companies

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#686

Post by city41 » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

jussij wrote: post #362

rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

For anyone concerned about climate change, the most important thing you can do is cast a vote for a political party that the issue seriously.

In the US, any party that takes the issue seriously does not get elected in an meaningful capacity. Maybe a city representative, even state representative here and there, but that's about it.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#687

Post by WitCanStain » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

FinanceAnon wrote: post #645

3pt14159 wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been saying this for years, but I finally get why "Just. Tax. It." doesn't work. The voters. They turn out in droves when it comes to taxes on something as visible as the price they pay at the pump or when it comes to the oil patch in Alberta. It's politically easier to create import duties or to go into debt and subsidize things. The level of taxation we need to stop a complete catastrophe is higher than people…

True, Switzerland (who I view as a "green" and progressive country) recently voted against those taxes in a referendum. I think it would be much worse in other countries. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57457384

Switzerland is very conservative, I'm not all that surprised if it didn't pass.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#688

Post by Haga » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

bko wrote: post #447

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

China is good at pretending to be good at collective action.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#689

Post by fangorn » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Too much of a good thing... I can picture a scenario, admittedly science fiction for now, when carbon capture is so lucrative it's removed to an extent plants don't have enough of it. Not to say carbon capture is bad, just that humans + greed = unintended consequences, every time.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#690

Post by cbmuser » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 3:23 PM UTC

agent327 wrote: post #505

bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

The West lowered their CO2 production by moving all manufacturing to China, so this isn't too surprising. Also, China, like most of the world except for Afrika, has a shrinking population ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_rate ). China needs to start building nuclear power plants and replace all those coal plants.

China is currently building 13 reactors at the same time. More than any other country.

> https://pris.iaea.org/PRIS/WorldStatistics/UnderConstruction...