Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' • Hacker News Board

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#581

Post by epistasis » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #301

nosianu wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production Not really. For some reason the actually quite simple problem is needlessly complicated in the discussions. Stop digging up ANY carbon from below ground where it was safely buried. Any carbon above ground is part of the cycle that includes atmospheric CO2. You need huge effort to change how much of it is in CO2 form at any time while still ha…

> Stop digging up ANY carbon from below ground where it was safely buried. If a country does this today, they will be at a severe economic disadvantage compared to a neighbouring country which continues using coal. All their manufactured goods will end up more expensive, nobody will buy their exports, and their population and economy will suffer. Only a few countries have done this to any extent, and they are countri…

That may have been true a decade ago, but today renewables provide the cheapest electricity.

We have a clear tech path that leads to cheaper and more abundant energy, we just need to choose it and stop listening to the fossil fuel interests that don't want the transition to happen.

Technology development accelerates the more we produce it. Accelerate the purchase of storage and renewable tech, and the quicker we will get to a future of abundant clean energy.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#582

Post by phkahler » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

>> Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side...

I'd say its easier to tax those who extract carbon from the ground (or import it). Far fewer companies.

(for this post I'm assuming the goal to reduce CO2 emissions is correct)

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#583

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

endtime wrote: post #420

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Isn't it funny how COVID has caused the government-inclined to want more government and the government-disinclined to want less government? Almost as if this complex issue about which we still don't have all the facts has just made people feel that their prior beliefs have been confirmed? I wonder if there's a phrase for a bias like that.

[deleted]

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#584

Post by mempko » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

newbamboo wrote: post #574

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Bingo. It’s great folly to think climate change can be solved by “waking people up” and that whole endeavor probably just makes things worse. It becomes a red/blue issue where nearly half the population take opposing sides, like mindless zombies. A solution, if we are to find one, will not come from the many but from the few, maybe just a single person or invention. Emerging economies pollute, necessarily. That’s the…

The solution is not authoritarianism. We have plenty of that now and got here because of that. We have not just governmental authoritarianism, but also in business. In fact, business authoritarianism is arguably why we are here.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#585

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

endtime wrote: post #420

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Isn't it funny how COVID has caused the government-inclined to want more government and the government-disinclined to want less government? Almost as if this complex issue about which we still don't have all the facts has just made people feel that their prior beliefs have been confirmed? I wonder if there's a phrase for a bias like that.

[deleted]

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#586

Post by mempko » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

headmelted wrote: post #421

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

This. A 200% value-added tax on fossil fuels that rises by 10% every year would provide the capital. EDIT: To clarify, this is not a suggestion to raise capital from the tax as much as it's to raise capital from the use of fossil fuels. It's a suggestion for an increasingly punitive financial cost to force behavioural changes.

We don't need to raise capital. We don't need taxes to pay for the renewable and adaptive work we need to do. Taxes are strictly punitive and saying we need to raise taxes to raise funds is not only wrong, but delays action.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#587

Post by prawn » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

londons_explore wrote: post #301

nosianu wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production Not really. For some reason the actually quite simple problem is needlessly complicated in the discussions. Stop digging up ANY carbon from below ground where it was safely buried. Any carbon above ground is part of the cycle that includes atmospheric CO2. You need huge effort to change how much of it is in CO2 form at any time while still ha…

> Stop digging up ANY carbon from below ground where it was safely buried. If a country does this today, they will be at a severe economic disadvantage compared to a neighbouring country which continues using coal. All their manufactured goods will end up more expensive, nobody will buy their exports, and their population and economy will suffer. Only a few countries have done this to any extent, and they are countri…

The suggestion I've seen is that key countries will put a price on carbon, and then add tariffs to imports from countries that lack a carbon price. That at least goes some way to removing the economic disadvantage.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#588

Post by 1337shadow » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:40 PM UTC

sumeno wrote: post #481

1337shadow wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each human being emits 25 tons of CO2 per year just by breathing, should the businesses also be taxed based on their number of employees? People often forget the good parts about the little CO2 increase from the past century, I care a lot about environment (I'm a countryside person) but CO2 - many people forget it is the food of the plants that we need to eat - just takes all the place in the environmental debate and…

Everyone always forgets the good part of mass extinction events

Maybe you believe that the temperature is going to rise infinitely because of CO2 emissions, I believe it's going to top at 2.5C degrees and that we can not only manage it but benefit from it.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#589

Post by mempko » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

rubyist5eva wrote: post #557

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Ah, so even more cronyism on the backs of taxpayers than there already is. Perfect plan!

This! People really don't understand that we have plenty of authoritarianism already and it's that authoritarianism is what got us here.

If Musk could have invented something to solve climate change, you think we would still be spending so much time trying to get off the planet?

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#590

Post by hnmullany » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

keewee7 wrote: post #561

bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

Chinese rise in emissions is because of Western manufacturing. Russian rise in emissions is because of Western European need for heating. If we stop outsourcing manufacturing to China and stop buying gas from Russia their emissions will also fall. But India and Africa are significantly poorer than China and Russia. India and Africa should be allowed to emit CO2 for the next two decades or they will remain poor foreve…

Chinese emissions are primarily because of a choice to exploit its thermal coal reserves for power generation instead of going nuclear. Probably was cheaper and faster to go that way - but it was definitely a choice.