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Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

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Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#541

Post by bko »

agent327 wrote: post #505
bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

The West lowered their CO2 production by moving all manufacturing to China, so this isn't too surprising. Also, China, like most of the world except for Afrika, has a shrinking population ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_rate ). China needs to start building nuclear power plants and replace all those coal plants.

Read the second part of my comment. 90% of Chinese CO2 emissions are not trade based.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#542

Post by baryphonic »

kumarvvr wrote: post #488
bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

> The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia Developed nations have polluted the planet for decades, with highest rates of energy consumption per capita. They have failed to build systems and processess that enables sustainable living. They have lived their excess and now lecture the world that their "90% of emissions are from consumption" One g…

Is the climate change problem moral or political-economic-scientific?

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#543

Post by f6v »

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

> Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side

Europe is so taxed I can't even fart without paying to the government. Don't get me wrong, I get a lot for what I pay, but it's borderline too much.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#544

Post by tomp »

kumarvvr wrote: post #488
bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

> The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia Developed nations have polluted the planet for decades, with highest rates of energy consumption per capita. They have failed to build systems and processess that enables sustainable living. They have lived their excess and now lecture the world that their "90% of emissions are from consumption" One g…

> They have failed to build systems and processess that enables sustainable living.

Mainly because they haven't tried. It simply wasn't a priority or necessity.

But looking forward, there's two options: (1) we invent new technology to sustain a high-energy civilisation - the only realistic scenario is that this invention comes from the developed world; (2) we revert to low-energy (pre 20th century) civilization.

I'd prefer (1).

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#545

Post by pfdietz »

agent327 wrote: post #505
bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

The West lowered their CO2 production by moving all manufacturing to China, so this isn't too surprising. Also, China, like most of the world except for Afrika, has a shrinking population ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_rate ). China needs to start building nuclear power plants and replace all those coal plants.

Most of the world does not have a shrinking population. The birth rates may be below replacement, but populations are still growing as the age structure shifts. Japan has achieved true negative population growth.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#546

Post by f6v »

pmorici wrote: post #528
jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Isn’t Musk the climate change guy you are looking for. He’s done more to advance the cause of sustainable energy than perhaps anyone.

A "climate change guy" would be someone who gets everyone to use a train or a bus, not a premium sedan.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#547

Post by adolph »

bko wrote: post #447
jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

China's population will age out soon enough and with that their emissions should reduce.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1101677/population-distr...

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#548

Post by gorgoiler »

kumarvvr wrote: post #488
bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

> The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia Developed nations have polluted the planet for decades, with highest rates of energy consumption per capita. They have failed to build systems and processess that enables sustainable living. They have lived their excess and now lecture the world that their "90% of emissions are from consumption" One g…

Do countries really ascend the same tech tree? Is there no way of avoiding the coal levels in order to level up to cold fusion?

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#549

Post by NumberWangMan »

MildlySerious wrote: post #296
rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

Here's a small parametric projection you can adjust to get a rough idea[1]. The conclusion is that we need to work on all ends, starting with heavy carbon taxing. We have pretty much squandered the time for anything but a drastic 180 degree turn. The best thing you can do as an individual is to be vocal about those concerns and put pressure on your political representatives to take action, CCL[2] being one example of…

To be very specific -- if you want a carbon fee & dividend, which is strongly supported by both economists and scientists as the most efficient, effective way to get the USA to net zero carbon emissions by 2050, call and write your senator as soon as you can using this link which will help you out with instructions (as well as explain more details if you're interested):

https://citizensclimatelobby.org/senate/

It only takes about 10 minutes! Right now we have the best chance we've had in a long time to get meaningful climate legislation passed.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#550

Post by symlinkk »

AstralStorm wrote: post #363
bb123 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you not think that "code red" fatigue is part of this? Ordinary people are bombarded with messages predicting doom at some distant point in the future for one reason or another on an almost daily basis, and yet life rolls on.

Nah, people dismissed these warnings when they were new in 50s, applied at best patches that made them feel good when problems became apparent in 90s and so on. It's not fatigue, it's ostrich politics. "If I don't look at it, it will go away." But it's not a predator, it's essentially a force of nature. We had this kind of (then social) problems being ignored lead to huge revolutions in the past. But this time, getti…

Possibly because the threat of nuclear war was a lot more real in the 50s?
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