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A wind-powered vehicle that can travel twice as fast as the wind itself

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11–20 of 263 posts

Re: A wind-powered vehicle that can travel twice as fast as the wind itself

#11

For those that hate the way news articles are written I found the Wikipedia article a much clearer read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbird_(wind-powered_vehi...

Like the professor in TFA I am also confused: how can the ground be imparting power to the propeller while moving downwind?

wind pushes vehicle. wheels spin. wheels drive propeller (via gears). propeller pushes vehicle.

I first assumed it was the other way around with wind->propeller->wheels, which it is not.

Re: A wind-powered vehicle that can travel twice as fast as the wind itself

#13
> The secret to Blackbird, Cavallaro explained, is that once the wind gets the vehicle going, its wheels start to turn the propeller blades — they're connected to the blades by a chain. As the vehicle speeds up, its wheels turn the propeller faster and faster. The propeller blades, in turn, act as a fan, pushing more air behind the land yacht and thrusting it forward.

That's a terrible explanation - no wonder people doubt the system would work!

Re: A wind-powered vehicle that can travel twice as fast as the wind itself

#14
The treadmill demos made me think of another counterintuitive possibility that I wondered if anyone had pulled off: sailing a boat indirectly up a river in no (bank relative) wind.

Turns out, it has been done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2il8Fagbyk

Re: A wind-powered vehicle that can travel twice as fast as the wind itself

#15

For those that hate the way news articles are written I found the Wikipedia article a much clearer read https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbird_(wind-powered_vehi...

Like the professor in TFA I am also confused: how can the ground be imparting power to the propeller while moving downwind?

The wind pushes the propeller, the gearing of the wheels to the propeller cause the overall vehicle to advance faster than the blades on the propeller (as seen by the wind).

It's an overdrive—the wind pushes the vehicle faster than the wind itself, but the vehicle gets less net propulsion force when you sum up the tractive force and the wind force.

Re: A wind-powered vehicle that can travel twice as fast as the wind itself

#16

> The secret to Blackbird, Cavallaro explained, is that once the wind gets the vehicle going, its wheels start to turn the propeller blades — they're connected to the blades by a chain. As the vehicle speeds up, its wheels turn the propeller faster and faster. The propeller blades, in turn, act as a fan, pushing more air behind the land yacht and thrusting it forward. That's a terrible explanation - no wonder people…

You're right that it falls far short, but it corrects one of the fundamental misunderstandings many people have about the vehicle: the wind does not spin the propeller, the wheels do.

Re: A wind-powered vehicle that can travel twice as fast as the wind itself

#17

> The secret to Blackbird, Cavallaro explained, is that once the wind gets the vehicle going, its wheels start to turn the propeller blades — they're connected to the blades by a chain. As the vehicle speeds up, its wheels turn the propeller faster and faster. The propeller blades, in turn, act as a fan, pushing more air behind the land yacht and thrusting it forward. That's a terrible explanation - no wonder people…

Yeah, my first inclination is that since the wind is turning the propeller and the propeller is turning the wheels via a gear system, the speed of the vehicle will be determined by the propeller speed, the gear ratio, and the tire diameter (ignoring friction and air resistance for a moment). The gear ratio is the critical component. It's not like the propeller is a simple sail. I could be completely missing something though.

Re: A wind-powered vehicle that can travel twice as fast as the wind itself

#18
post #9

This is slightly off topic but I have been using this trick lately to try to determine which part of a news article is likely to be BS: read the article in the movie announcer voice (you know the one: “in a world gone mad, one man…”). Whatever headlines or parts of the article sound boring are likely to be legit and whatever parts sound like they would fit in an action movie are likely overblown, underreseaeched, irr…

In this case, your BS detector is giving you a false result: https://youtu.be/yCsgoLc_fzI?t=275

Thanks for the data point!

I would still argue that BN and NdT are only the biggest names in pop science (as in people who wear “I <3 science” t shirts) and not in science as in academia. But that’s cool that they did weigh in on this subject.

Re: A wind-powered vehicle that can travel twice as fast as the wind itself

#19

> The secret to Blackbird, Cavallaro explained, is that once the wind gets the vehicle going, its wheels start to turn the propeller blades — they're connected to the blades by a chain. As the vehicle speeds up, its wheels turn the propeller faster and faster. The propeller blades, in turn, act as a fan, pushing more air behind the land yacht and thrusting it forward. That's a terrible explanation - no wonder people…

Yeah, my first inclination is that since the wind is turning the propeller and the propeller is turning the wheels via a gear system, the speed of the vehicle will be determined by the propeller speed, the gear ratio, and the tire diameter (ignoring friction and air resistance for a moment). The gear ratio is the critical component. It's not like the propeller is a simple sail. I could be completely missing something…

Most critically: the wind is not turning the propeller.

If you watch the videos when the thing is first getting going, it is slow enough to see that the propeller is actually spinning in the opposite direction it would be if it was acting as a windmill.

Re: A wind-powered vehicle that can travel twice as fast as the wind itself

#20
Other discussions:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27695869

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27696621

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27707791

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27987321

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28000727

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