Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' • Hacker News Board

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#441

Post by thomaslord » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:06 PM UTC

1337shadow wrote: post #424

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Each human being emits 25 tons of CO2 per year just by breathing, should the businesses also be taxed based on their number of employees? People often forget the good parts about the little CO2 increase from the past century, I care a lot about environment (I'm a countryside person) but CO2 - many people forget it is the food of the plants that we need to eat - just takes all the place in the environmental debate and…

Obviously there are many other big issues, but the things you've listed don't have a (direct) impact on climate change specifically. There's lots of things going on that damage the environment in various ways and I agree that we should work on those too, but if we can't take action on climate change all that other stuff will sort of take care of itself when society as we know it ceases to exist.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#442

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:07 PM UTC

1337shadow wrote: post #424

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Each human being emits 25 tons of CO2 per year just by breathing, should the businesses also be taxed based on their number of employees? People often forget the good parts about the little CO2 increase from the past century, I care a lot about environment (I'm a countryside person) but CO2 - many people forget it is the food of the plants that we need to eat - just takes all the place in the environmental debate and…

I feel we need a new, completely separate word for "net emissions", because too often the discussion gets confused around this point.

> Each human being emits 25 tons of CO2 per year just by breathing

In almost all cases we care about net emissions. Breathing is net carbon neutral.

What we really need is to tax the net carbon that's added to the "fast carbon loop" (the biosphere). That is, carbon that's being dug up from the ground.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#443

Post by baliex » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:07 PM UTC

whiddershins wrote: post #436

The notion that humanity would go extinct from any of this is absolutely unrealistic. What we are talking about is at worst massive economic damage and loss of life, similar to a very serious war. Which is horrible, but really not the threat it is made out to be. Moreover, since these changes happen relatively slowly (compared to bombs and such) much of the loss of life can be mitigated. So we are talking economic da…

I'm not sure you'd take the same position if you were one of the people who was going to be immediately and directly affected by the change that's coming. I expect at some point some change will happen which does affect you and you won't like it. That moment has already come for some people, spare a thought for them.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#444

Post by xattt » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:07 PM UTC

1337shadow wrote: post #424

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Each human being emits 25 tons of CO2 per year just by breathing, should the businesses also be taxed based on their number of employees? People often forget the good parts about the little CO2 increase from the past century, I care a lot about environment (I'm a countryside person) but CO2 - many people forget it is the food of the plants that we need to eat - just takes all the place in the environmental debate and…

Googling this number gives different answers for respiratory CO2 emissions per person. Various forms of wildlife obviously also emits CO2 and historically, this has not contributed to climate change prior to the last century. This is a moot point.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#445

Post by josh_today » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:07 PM UTC

If the Sahara and Grand Canyon once flowed with water before civilization

What makes a paper straw the solution so our polar ice caps have less thaw?

This is a serious question and not denying climate change. What’s our ultimate end goal after everything has gone green if we cannot change the planet’s cycles?

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#446

Post by throwaway744678 » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:07 PM UTC

headmelted wrote: post #421

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

This. A 200% value-added tax on fossil fuels that rises by 10% every year would provide the capital. EDIT: To clarify, this is not a suggestion to raise capital from the tax as much as it's to raise capital from the use of fossil fuels. It's a suggestion for an increasingly punitive financial cost to force behavioural changes.

Wow, nice realistic solution! This will definitely not cause a major financial crisis. You should run for office.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#447

Post by bko » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:07 PM UTC

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia.

China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emissions per capita.

And it's not that China is producing emissions during manufacturing goods the entire world consumes. Take a look at "China: Consumption-based accounting: how do emissions compare when we adjust for trade?" and you'll see ~90% of their emissions are for consumption [2]

> Annual consumption-based emissions are domestic emissions adjusted for trade. If a country imports goods the CO₂ emissions needed to produce such goods are added to its domestic emissions; if it exports goods then this is subtracted.

2018 had 8.96 bn carbon tons in consumption out of a total of 9.96 bn total tons (~90% consumption)

The good news is that China is good at collective action. The bad news is, they're China.

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/183943/us-carbon-dioxide...

[1] https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/each-countrys-share-co2-emi...

[2] https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#448

Post by the_biot » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:08 PM UTC

Mikeb85 wrote: post #386

belorn wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were a study done in Sweden a few years ago that looked at the question about an individuals actions and the corresponding CO2 production. No car > skipping flight > buy green energy > Get a electric car > diet. https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/article/four-lifestyle-choi...

Of course the biggest emitters are industrial. Anything we attribute to individuals pales in comparison to the transport industry, production of goods like steel and concrete, resource extraction, power generation and production of consumer goods. Telling consumers to cut back on X is essentially passing the back and making consumers feel bad without actually addressing the bulk of emissions.

Yes, and this needs to be the top comment, and should be in every article about climate change.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#449

Post by mellavora » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:08 PM UTC

konschubert wrote: post #69

skinkestek wrote: post #31

So now we can get rid of fast fashion, mandate reusability for products, reintroduce basic woodworking, metalcrafting and sewing/repair work in school and with that get rid of a huge chunk of the needless shipping? Or are we still going to go after individuals eating traditional food while thought leaders fly across the globe in private jets (no kidding) telling us we need to change our diet? PS: I'm already a enthus…

I think we should do neither. Impose a co2 emissions tax and let the market figure it out.

Why not tax it at the point of extraction?

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#450

Post by lucb1e » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 12:08 PM UTC

dantheman wrote: post #321

Bellamy wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wildfires in Canada and Russia. Floats in Germany. Etc, etc... We have known 40 years what will happen and now for our leaders those consequences seem to come as a surprise. I hope the Germans will vote for the Green party in the September's federal elections and other countries will follow the example.

Didn't Germany b decide to dismantle their nuclear power plants?

Yes, and it's not a topic they like to talk about. I have yet to meet a person from Germany that isn't outright in favor of abolishing nuclear, the best I've gotten out of one is to agree that it might have been better to do it after shutting down coal plants.