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Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

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Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#431

Post by wizardofdos »

aivisol wrote: post #379
belorn wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were a study done in Sweden a few years ago that looked at the question about an individuals actions and the corresponding CO2 production. No car > skipping flight > buy green energy > Get a electric car > diet. https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/article/four-lifestyle-choi...

The highest bar in the chart says "have one fewer child". It actually exceeds any others by extremely large margin [0]. How is that even considered as the option? One child less means halving population after every generation. Eliminate the population and problem solved? [0] https://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/drimage/1120/630/4832/fourc...

It's true tho. On a world with limited resources and limits to the amount of pollution our planet can deal with, less people means a longer runway.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#432

Post by galangalalgol »

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

In democratic nations, government actions are collective action, and so they have the same problem. In non-democratic nations those in charge are often the beneficiaries of the status quo. I'm not hopeful for government action either. People want a quick fix with little loss in living standard and few changes. That tells me that either we won't notice the incremental changes enough to act, and we'll ride this to the end, or we'll wake up and suddenly fund a massive but cheap climate engineering project that will work, but have unintended consequences, like iron fertilization of the oceans for albedo impacts. Worst case we go snowball earth and kill everything instead of just ourselves.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#433

Post by ur-whale »

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #163
ur-whale wrote: post #96

Every one is focused on climate change. But climate change is just a symptom, and absolutely not the disease. No one seems to want to discuss or even mention the actual root cause of climate change, namely: there are simply too many people on the planet. Go back to less than 1B human on planet earth, and climate change will stop being a problem in a heartbeat. But the implications of such a drastic population decreas…

> Go back to less than 1B human on planet earth How do you know it's 1 billion and not 1 million or 10 billion? Hint: you don't know. This is non-actionable opinion and therefore actively harmful as it further propagates no-action on climate change or solving problems whatsoever. The population is peaking anyway, growth rates are dramatically slowing, so this is not at all a relevant point.

> How do you know it's 1 billion and not 1 million or 10 billion? Hint: you don't know.

I certainly don't.

That wasn't the point. The point was that this is the conversation that matters, not how much cows fart.

But the downvotes of my comment are its perfect vindication: it's not something that anyone is willing to have honest conversations about.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#434

Post by tpm »

rich_sasha wrote: post #170

It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production. Some are high-pain, low-gain (switching devices off instead of standby?), some are opposite (cycling instead of driving when possible etc). For that if for no other reason, I’d rather if consumer prices included an explicit CO2 tax. The here can be a rebate for poorer people, or personal allowance, whatever, but there would be a fixed yardstic…

I found Project Drawdown's Solutions Table quite good:

https://drawdown.org/solutions/table-of-solutions

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#435

Post by ur-whale »

ash wrote: post #200
ur-whale wrote: post #96

Every one is focused on climate change. But climate change is just a symptom, and absolutely not the disease. No one seems to want to discuss or even mention the actual root cause of climate change, namely: there are simply too many people on the planet. Go back to less than 1B human on planet earth, and climate change will stop being a problem in a heartbeat. But the implications of such a drastic population decreas…

World population is projected to (at least) level out by 2100. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_grow...

> World population is projected to (at least) level out by 2100.

By which time it'll be way too late, so I'm not sure how that helps.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#436

Post by whiddershins »

The notion that humanity would go extinct from any of this is absolutely unrealistic.

What we are talking about is at worst massive economic damage and loss of life, similar to a very serious war.

Which is horrible, but really not the threat it is made out to be.

Moreover, since these changes happen relatively slowly (compared to bombs and such) much of the loss of life can be mitigated.

So we are talking economic damage and loss of property and infrastructure. Primarily.

Let’s be honest that the most likely course through all this is to adapt to the changing planet. I think that would be so much more refreshing than all the hand wringing.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#438

Post by uCantCauseUCant »

danybittel wrote: post #260
nosianu wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s just so hard to know what actions have what impact on CO2 production Not really. For some reason the actually quite simple problem is needlessly complicated in the discussions. Stop digging up ANY carbon from below ground where it was safely buried. Any carbon above ground is part of the cycle that includes atmospheric CO2. You need huge effort to change how much of it is in CO2 form at any time while still ha…

I really like your post! It's not rocket science. Too many interest groups are convoluting the issue. But, I think to clearest, easiest way is to just ban "coal, gas, oil". Then let the lack of it "tickle" through the economy. Not by tomorrow, mind you, have it gradually reduce. Where there are problems, help with tax money. We've done it before, with asbestos, lead in gas, ..

Now all we need is a world-government to keep everyone towing that line of thought and not "cheap" out.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#439

Post by ur-whale »

automatic6131 wrote: post #114
ur-whale wrote: post #96

Every one is focused on climate change. But climate change is just a symptom, and absolutely not the disease. No one seems to want to discuss or even mention the actual root cause of climate change, namely: there are simply too many people on the planet. Go back to less than 1B human on planet earth, and climate change will stop being a problem in a heartbeat. But the implications of such a drastic population decreas…

Yeah, how do you think planning the largest genocide in history sounds to people? Do you even hear yourself? Do you want to go to 6 out of 7 people and tell them they cannot breed? What will be the punishment if they do? Or will you forcibly sterilise them?

> Do you even hear yourself?

The one who seems to be hearing voices in his head is you. I never suggested such a thing as genocide or forced sterilization.

I'm simply pointing out what I believe to be the root cause of the problem, and that if you keep applying ointment to wooden legs, you aren't going to achieve much.

But then talking about overpopulation is taboo, so let's just dig our heads in the sand and wait to get properly baked.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#440

Post by lucb1e »

Cycl0ps wrote: post #326
jimworm wrote: post #257

For all the carbon capture that the Devonian/Carboniferous period did over 100 million years, humanity undid a large part of it in 150 or so years. And now to preserve human civilisation in some form, the most direct way is probably to rebuild that carbon sink within a much shorter time. Much shorter than 150 years, not 100 million. Current carbon emissions are over 10 billion tonnes per year, so the capture speed wi…

I've thought about it myself and the best answer that comes to mind is clear-cutting entire forests, tossing that biomass down a mineshaft, and replanting to start the process over again. All this talk of planting trees removes atmospheric carbon, but until it's out of the system entirely we're one forest fire away from wiping out decades of carbon removal.

You might be interested to learn of Climeworks if you're looking for a more reliable way to remove emissions than planting trees (which is, indeed, mostly not really working as well as too slow).
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