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Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

bbc.com

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Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#141

Post by bttrfl »

adrianN wrote: post #80
konschubert wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we should do neither. Impose a co2 emissions tax and let the market figure it out.

A carbon tax that would be high enough to force changes quickly enough would also be devastating for the poorer segment of the population and hence very hard to pass in a democracy. I mixture of a carbon price and other measures can be easier to sell to the voters.

taxes on usage/consumption could be progressive.

Using X costs you Y Using XX costs you YYY Using XXX costs you YYYYYY

This way water, electricity would still be cheap for most and would incentivise to stop overusing it.

You could still get a cheap flight once a year, but you won't be able to fly every weekend.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#142

Post by dredmorbius »

fighterpilot wrote: post #38
Yuioup wrote: post #4

Getting rid of bitcoin would be a start.

Just tax carbon instead of trying to pick winners and losers

In general I agree.

In practice, there are behaviours which provide no net social benefit, exact tremendous costs, and yet are inherently self-perpetuating. Legal prohibitions can help in this case. It's a form of demand-dampening.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#143

Post by foxfluff »

gspr wrote: post #90
matco11 wrote: post #16

> This pact aims to keep the rise in global temperatures well below 2C this century and to pursue efforts to keep it under 1.5C. It seems to me that continuing to communicate just the average temperature increase is a missed opportunity to engage with a greater portion of the population. 1.5 or 2 degrees do not seem like much, but once one understands that’s an average made out of much bigger positive and negative sw…

I see this a lot, too. "It's just 2 degrees" – what the hell is wrong with you? If your body temperature is 2-3 degrees above normal, you feel like absolute shit. Likewise for atmospheric CO₂ concentrations; "it's just 0.04 %" – dude, you surely start noticing the effects of "just" 0.04% alcohol in your blood. Or hey, try cyanide. What is wrong with people?!

But this isn't about body temperature or alcohol concentrations, so comparisons like that are not useful.

Look, I just had a glass of cool water, perhaps between five to ten degrees celsius. And I'm about to have a coffee. What's that, fifty degrees? With 5% to 10% milk concentration. And I think I'll be just fine. You don't?! What the hell is wrong with you?

If you want to explain why a two-degree increase in average temperature on the planet is dramatic, then you need to do better than compare it to something completely different.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#144

Post by mytailorisrich »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #120
mytailorisrich wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all marginal issues. Even at the current level of population demand on resources is too great and will be massively too great if poverty is eradicated (as it should). The long term solution for both the environment and people's quality of life (I don't think that not being able to travel, not being able to eat what one wants, having to live in a small flat in a dense city with mass transit only is a good li…

>The long term solution for both the environment and people's quality of life is not only to have an objective to cut emission but to have an objective to cut population. > >Now, that is a very sensitive topic and so everyone prefers to ignore it. No. You are ignoring that countries whose population is increasing are, per capita, not emitting much. Please compare the eqCO2 per capita in Africa vs Europe or USA. If we…

> You are ignoring that countries whose population is increasing are, per capita, not emitting much

No I'm not and this is what makes the situation worse.

When people get richer they consume more. This is not only about CO2 per se but all resources. Global population growth has been a driver for both CO2 emissions and demand on all resources, but this is also compounded by reduction in poverty.

Imagine a world where all humans consumed as much as a Western European, or even worse an American, today: This would be much, much worse than our current situation.

So unless we want to live in 1984 meets The Matrix in order to drastically limit consumption of resources then we need to get the population down so that every human can enjoy a good life in a thriving environment.

I must say I don't understand why there seems to be a taboo on this.

> asking the culprits to curb their crazy consumption/pollution and leave the rest of the world alone.

It's not "us vs them". We are all on the same boat. The poorest do not want to remain poor, and rightly so. Everyone should have the right to reach highest living standard possible.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#145

Post by perryizgr8 »

> "We will see even more intense and more frequent heatwaves," said Dr Friederike Otto, from the University of Oxford, UK, and one of the IPCC report's authors.

> "And we will also see an increase in heavy rainfall events on a global scale, and also increases in some types of droughts in some regions of the world."

According to TFA these are the consequences to expect if 1.5 degrees rise occurs. Doesn't sound like "code red" to me.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#146

Post by input_sh »

pmg101 wrote: post #11
eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's instead get rid of private air travel. Has caused a pandemic and millions of deaths. And the emissions are very likely larger than those of Bitcoin. People can go on vacation by train instead. If you demand people use slow legacy money then I can demand slow legacy travel, ok? ;)

I see you're getting downvoted but maybe "get rid of" isn't the best approach. Certainly taxing air travel at a chunky rate would reduce unnecessary flights.

Aviation overall is just 3.5% of emissions: https://research.noaa.gov/article/ArtMID/587/ArticleID/2667/...

I'm not saying we should leave it as is, but there are easier and more impactful things to focus on.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#147

Post by xvilka »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #64
polote wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 40% of the public who see climate change as some kind of job destroying conspiracy. These people are not the ones who need to take action, so who cares? Policy makers are the ones who need to act, and they are already well aware for most of the consequences of global warming. The issue is that a lot of big corporations (The ones which really control police makers) are not going to be advantaged by transforming the…

Policy makers who rely on the ignorant 40%’s vote to stay in a job aren’t going to risk their salary and pension.

General public will understand the problem when first country ceases to exist (there are multiple candidates that will completely become uninhabitable in a few decades).

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#148

Post by karol »

We still cannot be sure if it is anthropocentric climate chance but that doesn't really matter. If we want to "return to baseline conditions" - what we try to show on graphs, then we need to cool down the atmosphere using aerosols: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/05/160519120731.h...

Realistically there is not and there isn't going to be in the current decade an agreement between nations on CO2 reduction. Whatever we change in EU China and India is going to undo by mining coal. So geo-engineering negotiations should start now.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#149

Post by [deleted] »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #121
h4kor wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Covid put a minuscule dent into the carbon emmision, but we are basically back to normal. Death don't have a great effect as the general carbon production (oil, coal, gas) are still rising.

True. But I was thinking that since a million people have died there would be some dent in carbon

[deleted]

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#150

Post by chriswarbo »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #60
headmelted wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also people need to be presented with the consequences. I still know a lot of people who genuinely believe it means slightly warmer summers. They think I'm a crazy person when I mention the never-ending storms and lack of drinking water. Also just dropping this link here as I remember watching it at the time and thinking isn't it great we're not there yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CXRaTnKDXA

Yeah, I don’t mean to be disparaging but the average person doesn’t really seem to grasp this beyond: it’ll be slightly warmer. And in a cold European climate, most people seem to think that’s a good thing. Warm summers are enjoyable when you’re swimming in the sea and having barbecues in the park. Maybe there should be more focus on the frequency and intensity of storms, floods, extreme heatwaves, etc. Although to b…

> And in a cold European climate, most people seem to think that’s a good thing. Warm summers are enjoyable when you’re swimming in the sea and having barbecues in the park.

This is especially frustrating in the UK, where our existing warmth relies on the gulf stream; without it, our climate would be closer to others on the same latitude, like Canada.

The gulf stream is already being disrupted by meltwater from the arctic.

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