Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

tbray.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 300 posts

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#281

Post by gambiting »

garyrichardson wrote: post #278
gambiting wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I did the same recently, but in a PHEV, and I honestly think it's the best of both worlds. In my daily usage, I use zero fuel. Last time I filled up was in March, because I just charge it at home and nearly all of my daily driving is within the 30 mile EV-only range. But when we drove across Europe I could just carry on for about 600 miles per tank, only filling up once at a well stocked petrol station(with workin…

As an electric car owner, the thought of paying for batteries and oil changes sounds terrible. I looked into the hybrid jeep to replace my aging one, but I know how much the maintenance on my gas beast is. I'll pay a premium to add a electic drive train and still have to take it back to the dealership every several months. Awful. I'll just wait for the fully electric version.

I mean, that's a fair point, except that the pricing structure doesn't reflect the differences at all. Servicing a fully electric car should be cheaper, but in practice it just isn't. Servicing a PHEV should be more expensive but it also just isn't. A service of the E-Tron or the MB EQC costs the same as an equivalent ICE car even though there's hardly anything to do, and the service of my PHEV Volvo costs the same as the service of a regular ICE Volvo despite there being more to do.

So you might find that you'll get a fully electric Jeep but your servicing costs won't go down at all, it will still require an annual service to keep the warranty, and the dealer will almost certainly charge the same as for a normal one if not more(and I've seen dealers charge more, since EV cars can only be worked on by technicians trained to work on them, and there's comparatively fewer of them)

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#282

Post by _nalply »

dylan604 wrote: post #270
_nalply wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone doing this deserves to be ripped off This is theft. Plain and simple theft. I dream of a world where everybody can leave the keys in the ignition and the doors open because nobody steals. Thieves are caught and are given a stern warning and therapy. It's an utopia.

It is a crime of opportunity that "you" created. Had "you" not been lazy, the situation would not have existed for the thief to thieve. "You" did it to "yourself"

And your punishment for this sin is well earned! /s

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#283

Post by _ph_ »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #260
_ph_ wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would probably not be a great idea to destroy a perfectly fine ICE, though even that can in some cases be a win, if you drive very high mileage. But that isn't the point. We should stop buying new ICE vehicles as soon as possible. So instead of buying a new ICE vehicle, which might be on the roads for another 10-15 years, rather drive your existing one a bit longer and then switch to an electric vehicle. Currently…

> But that isn't the point. We should stop buying new ICE vehicles as soon as possible. Well, I agree entirely with that. But TFA said we should all stop driving them now , and that's what I was asking about.

Well, I didn't take it literally, because it literalyl isn't possible :). It will take some years until the car industry can supply all new cars needed, even at best effort.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#284

Post by ansible »

garyrichardson wrote: post #277
ansible wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've taken multiple long trips in my Toyota Prius, and never once had to pee in the bushes. 600 mile range on a single fill-up, but after driving for a few hours I'm usually ready for a 5 minute break. I totally get how cool EVs are, and how much fun they can be to drive. And if you're spending 90+% of your time just commuting to work, it can potentially save you money on gas. But I would definitely not subject mysel…

My experience with hybrids and long trips is that you're stopping more frequently for gas. They've got small gas tanks and small batteries. Both of which are burned through quickly when you're on a freeway and not touching the brake pedal.

I'm real curious as to which hybrids you've been taking trips in. A gen 4 Prius can easily do 600 miles at highway speed. A gen 3 should be able to do at least 550 on a full tank. That's nearly 8 hours at 70mph.

There's no current EV that can do that.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#286

Post by garyrichardson »

ansible wrote: post #284
garyrichardson wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience with hybrids and long trips is that you're stopping more frequently for gas. They've got small gas tanks and small batteries. Both of which are burned through quickly when you're on a freeway and not touching the brake pedal.

I'm real curious as to which hybrids you've been taking trips in. A gen 4 Prius can easily do 600 miles at highway speed. A gen 3 should be able to do at least 550 on a full tank. That's nearly 8 hours at 70mph. There's no current EV that can do that.

My experience was with a BMW 330e. I guess I should clarify, I mean true plug in hybrids. Is a gen 4 Prius a PHEV?

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#287

Post by garyrichardson »

gambiting wrote: post #281
garyrichardson wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an electric car owner, the thought of paying for batteries and oil changes sounds terrible. I looked into the hybrid jeep to replace my aging one, but I know how much the maintenance on my gas beast is. I'll pay a premium to add a electic drive train and still have to take it back to the dealership every several months. Awful. I'll just wait for the fully electric version.

I mean, that's a fair point, except that the pricing structure doesn't reflect the differences at all. Servicing a fully electric car should be cheaper, but in practice it just isn't. Servicing a PHEV should be more expensive but it also just isn't. A service of the E-Tron or the MB EQC costs the same as an equivalent ICE car even though there's hardly anything to do, and the service of my PHEV Volvo costs the same a…

I've got to disagree with you. I've got a Tesla. Maintenance costs going into 2 years have been tire rotations. I guess I'll see in years 3-5, but I have a VW of about the same vintage and it's required coolant system repairs (thankfully under warranty), oil and other fluid changes, brakes are coming up. I don't really expect to see anything like that in the Tesla unless there is suspension wear/tear and then eventually things like the power windows, etc.

Interesting that other car manufacturers are requiring maintenance of their electric cars. I haven't hear that before. Sounds like legacy businesses maintaining their legacy business models.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#288

Post by zejn »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #84
bryanlarsen wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carbon zero transportation is a two step process: electrify the transportation and green the electricity. They both have to be done, and they both take a long time. If each side waits for the other, neither gets done. At current prices, renewables are the cheapest energy sources, any increased demand for energy will bias the electricity mix greener.

> If each side waits for the other, neither gets done. But for it to get done, we essentially have to junk all current IC vehicles, and build replacements. My question was whether or not that actually puts us ahead CO2/climate-wise.

Vehicles are being replaced every year. Think of buying a new ICE car as a subscription to fossil fuels, as you can't easily make fuel for ICE engine from renewable energy.

The reverse is true - you can make electricity from fossil fuels, if really needed.

I interpret Tim Bray's "everyone should stop driving fossil vehicles starting now" as a conclusion, that EVs are usable enough for most personal transport needs and if buying a new car, make it an EV.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#290

Post by zejn »

One could generalize Tim Bray's "everyone should stop driving fossil vehicles starting now." into "everyone should stop burning stuff ASAP". Burning stuff is the largest source of CO2 emissions.

The two largest sources of direct personal CO2 emissions are transportation and heating and/or cooling our homes.

For personal transportation, EVs are a great replacement for ICE. They allow you to stop burning fuel directly and instead buy electricity. They're improving really fast, to a degree they're getting usable even for 1000 mile trips. And they use less energy, about a third of an ICE.

For heating and cooling homes there's heat pump, which uses electricity to pump the heat either into the house when in heating mode or pumping heat out of home when in cooling mode. No more dealing with soot, ash, and chimneys, and they're so efficient that you get more heat if professionals burn gas in power plants to power your heat pump than you would get if you burned the gas directly.

Both these allow you to drastically reduce your direct CO2 footprint, also known as scope 1 emissions.

A lot of electricity is produced by burning stuff, that's where it makes sense to get solar panels to try to produce most of your consumption or at least offset your use. Those are a modern miracle - getting 20% of sun's energy into usable form is far better than photosynthesis, which gets few percent at most.

While Tim says "everyone should stop driving fossil vehicles now", I acknowledge that it's logistically impossible to replace all the vehicles overnight. But the car market in the USA sells about 4 million of new cars every year, and those really should be electric if at all possible. Buying an ICE is essentially buying a 10-year subscription to fossil fuels and CO2 emissions.

Post reply on HN