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Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

nature.com

171–180 of 263 posts

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article the authors directly address this and use datasets of machine translated articles as controls.

People who don't speak English natively could use machine translation, and people plagiarizing could use machine translation. How do they distinguish (if you don't mind saving me digging into the research)?

Phrases like AI and big data are already pretty well defined in almost every major machine translation set. You'd have to forcefully try to thesaurus your way through to make it do that 99% of the time.

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#172
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a common technique/first layer of plagiarizing a text to translate it from english to eg. spanish and then from spanish to english, to get rid of the unique words the author used.

> it's a common technique/first layer of plagiarizing a text to translate it from english to eg. spanish and then from spanish to english It's also a common technique for people who don't speak English to translate it... In fact, quite a bit more common.

I find it unlikely a machine translator would spit out phrases like "counterfeit conscience" and "haze figuring" over AI and cloud computing with 1 pass. Plagiarism via multiple pass throughs seems much more likely.

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Master's thesis I don't doubt this at all, and I have no doubt that GPT-3 with a bit of human editing can spit out something better than the lower third of masters students at corn row colleges. Masters degrees are cash cows, which is why no one in unregulated industries cares about them. People in regulated/unionized industries also don't actually care; even educators, who at least nominally see intrinsic value in…

> Masters degrees are cash cows, which is why no one in unregulated industries cares about them. People in regulated/unionized industries also don't actually care; even educators, who at least nominally see intrinsic value in education, go to borderline diploma mills to get that union-mandated raise at minimal effort. I don't mean this rudely, but it is attitudes like this which cause the CS interviewing process to b…

> I don't trust your credential so I demand you prove your competence to me on the spot

Well, yeah?

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#174
post #35

This is anecdotal evidence at best, but it is worth considering. I know of several individuals who were able to complete their entire Master's thesis utilizing a combination of AI generated content (GPT-3) and a paraphrasing tool. The generated text was well over 50 pages, completely bypassed all known content/plagiarism checks and was even included in the Universities "exemplary examples". To this day, it is still t…

> I know of several individuals who were able to complete their entire Master's thesis utilizing a combination of AI generated content (GPT-3) and a paraphrasing tool.

That's nice, how did it do the defense?

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's a common technique/first layer of plagiarizing a text to translate it from english to eg. spanish and then from spanish to english It's also a common technique for people who don't speak English to translate it... In fact, quite a bit more common.

Sure, but there should never be a need to translate the same phrase back into English.

The parent post to mine was theorizing that the reason the English was so mangled was because it had been translated from English, then back to English. I was replying that, if the researchers didn't use English as a first language, it's ridiculously more likely that they were translating from their native tongue into English. You're misunderstanding where the notion of translating it twice came from.

And sure, there are reasons to translate a phrase from English, to another language, and back to English. This will be familiar to most people who've studied abroad, or done technical conferences on foreign soil, things of that nature. Let's say you're from Bolivia, attending a lecture at an English university, and are planning on referencing some of the content in a paper you're writing, in English. You speak passable English. The lecturer gets into the meat of the topic, and you realize you don't quite understand the context of what they're saying. Some of the conjugations are unfamiliar, so you just write it down as best you can and move on. Later, when writing the paper, you need a way to untangle the phrasing. A simple way is to put it into a translation application, translate to Bolivian, then try to parse it in native tongue. However, you know you have to explain and discuss this section in English; by translating it back, you'll get the English words, but some of the context and grammar structure will be from familiar Bolivian.

So yeah, never say never.

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#176

I often wonder while reading an academic paper how the writing could be as hopelessly bad as it is. This type of manipulation and plagiarism may be partially to blame, but the academic writing style has also gone completely off the rails to the point that half the journal articles being published today read as if written by some kind of paper writing AI robot even when I am quite certain that that isn't the case. And…

Older academic writing was frequently beautiful. See the classic "On Cooling the Mark Out" paper. Every sentence is a joy to read.

https://infofranpro.wdfiles.com/local--files/19520101-on-coo...

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#177
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... masters students at corn row colleges. First time I've heard the term "corn row colleges". Google's not bringing up anything that looks relevant. I suggest picking something else. Given that "cornrows" are a predominantly black hairstyle, the term reads like a racial slur.

The name originates as a perforative for small tuition-dependent non-research teaching colleges. Those colleges mostly catered to pastors, teachers, etc. and were located in small towns. The historical reasons that these institutions are now "in the corn fields" provides an interesting topic for historical inquiry. Perhaps many are in old rail-road or factory towns that have since languished, but schools that were si…

As I understand it, the Northwest Ordinance provided for the funding of schools, resulting in the "land grant" college system that still exists today. The most well known land grant colleges are of course the "flagship" universities of the Midwest states. But the states also chartered many smaller, regional, and specialized schools.

I live in Wisconsin, and the state university system is chartered to serve the needs of the state. There are too many students to send them all to UW in Madison, so there are a number of smaller regional universities, many of which now offer graduate degrees, plus an even larger number of "commuter" and "satellite" schools, and an elaborate technical college and trade school system. Not everybody can get a degree at a residential college. Life gets in the way.

We can debate the relative prestige of these colleges, but I've worked with people who attended the regional schools, including many engineers and computer programmers. All I can say is, send me more.

The colleges that catered to pastors were largely private, and in my home state, there was one in every town. Some of them emerged as full service 4-year colleges with additional programs. My undergraduate college was nominally "Christian" but I got a secular science education there, and it was well ranked in science. It also adjoined a seminary where I never set foot.

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but there should never be a need to translate the same phrase back into English.

The parent post to mine was theorizing that the reason the English was so mangled was because it had been translated from English, then back to English. I was replying that, if the researchers didn't use English as a first language, it's ridiculously more likely that they were translating from their native tongue into English. You're misunderstanding where the notion of translating it twice came from. And sure, there…

I love how confident you sound about the Bolivian language. I guess you meant spanish, or maybe aymara/quechua.

> This will be familiar to most people who've studied abroad

It wasn't to me until now but this explains a lot!

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#179
post #62

Some of these tortured phrases are great. My favourites: "flag to clamor" for signal to noise "individual computerized collaborator" for PDA (personal digital assistant) "haze figuring" for cloud computing "information stockroom" for data warehouse "focal preparing unit" for CPU "discourse acknowledgement" for voice recognition "mean square blunder" for MSE (mean square error) "arbitrary right of passage" for random…

Reminds me of a Google translation of "bass" to Chinese as "low frequency fish"

Re: Tortured phrases: A dubious writing style emerging in science

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but there should never be a need to translate the same phrase back into English.

The parent post to mine was theorizing that the reason the English was so mangled was because it had been translated from English, then back to English. I was replying that, if the researchers didn't use English as a first language, it's ridiculously more likely that they were translating from their native tongue into English. You're misunderstanding where the notion of translating it twice came from. And sure, there…

My wife was a professional translator and I did my master's thesis on the topic. With modern translation engines, there is no way you'll end up with "haze figuring" or "arbitrary timberland" translating one way from any source language into English. I also doubt you could get a very specific word like "timberland" from repeated translation of "forest", intentional synonym replacement is much more likely.

Also, they speak Spanish in Bolivia ;)

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