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Apps Getting Worse

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Re: Apps Getting Worse

#141
post #117
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify is atrocious. Feel bad for all you younger folks having to deal with repetitive auto tune crap injected into any station. Can't say much positive about Pandora or Tidal or.. Miss old Slacker days and prior.

I think that's just the nostalgia talking. Spotify has pretty great radio/recommendations if you even bother to use those features.

>Spotify has pretty great radio/recommendations if you even bother to use those features.

The radio feature used to be a fantastic tool for exploration. Now it just feeds you your existing music preferences.

Re: Apps Getting Worse

#142
post #40

Are PMs the only one to blame? What about developers "bored" with old and perfectly working stuff jumping to new shiny hype trains whenever possible?

That's true. I feel the urge to use new shiny stuff pretty often, but have no choice but to use old robust solutions, because new ones are just mostly proofs of concepts. This is also extremely true about the whole web-dev thing (the good ol' one JavaScript framework a day ). I guess it just comes down to working ethics. Doctors are a good example. Among them there are people who just do a job , who aren't passionate…

While I said all that, I don't know a single bit about what could be done against such a problem. I guess it's just our nature. It seems to shine in many other areas (politics f.e.) as well.

It's just your general mundane ignorance and wrong values.

Re: Apps Getting Worse

#143
post #9

The ecosystem has also lost its mojo, and Apple is the one that killed it. The good old days of really good, dedicated mac software studios are over. Made by Sofa, Delicious Monster, SubEthaEdit, TextMate, Panic Inc, Rogue Amoeba, Strange Flavour. These were really great software studios that really upheld a standard of excellence for Mac software. But how are you supposed to keep that up when apple forces you into a…

Wow thank you for that list of developers. I looked through all of them and found some great apps. Is there some place that catalogs development companies that are more boutique and quality focused? I want to help support these guys and keep them going.

Other companies: Omni Group (mentioned elsewhere), Bare Bones Software. There's also this page [0] which has a few names -- some unfortunately which don't exist anymore (Ambrosia! sigh)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Macintosh_software_co...

Re: Apps Getting Worse

#144

The worst offender recently in my opinion is Spotify on desktop. It used to be that when you clicked on an artists page you would see all the music tracks listed. Now it's all buried deep in and you have to search through the individual albums. Even the list of albums itself is not shown on the main artist page, you have to click "See Discography" first. The "Home" page is even worse. Where is my discover weekly play…

I hope people will use Spotify as a case study in how to fuck up a UI over time. The service itself is fine, I quite like some of the music it finds for me on discover, but the UI is on a slow death march towards complete uselessness, and some features have always been hopelessly broken (queuing). From a business standpoint I find it fascinating. It's about as perfect as an example it gets of "if it ain't broke, don'…

My recently favorite question to ask people: why do you need a development team at a company whose product has already been developed, is feature-complete, and everyone's fine with it? A bank doesn't need a full-time development team for example.

Re: Apps Getting Worse

#145

The worst offender recently in my opinion is Spotify on desktop. It used to be that when you clicked on an artists page you would see all the music tracks listed. Now it's all buried deep in and you have to search through the individual albums. Even the list of albums itself is not shown on the main artist page, you have to click "See Discography" first. The "Home" page is even worse. Where is my discover weekly play…

Sadly, the Apple Music app on macOS also has major issues. For example, I’ll open it and try to search, and the results view says “Showing results for ‘query’” followed by a bunch of unrelated songs and albums. Running the search again actually produces results.

Apple Music on iOS has its own major issues, but at least search works the first time.

Re: Apps Getting Worse

#146

The worst offender recently in my opinion is Spotify on desktop. It used to be that when you clicked on an artists page you would see all the music tracks listed. Now it's all buried deep in and you have to search through the individual albums. Even the list of albums itself is not shown on the main artist page, you have to click "See Discography" first. The "Home" page is even worse. Where is my discover weekly play…

So let's analyze this for a minute, first at a general level of incentives that every software-building org has, then at the specific level of Spotify's founding culture and present incentives.

Generally: ideally we imagine UX & product roles as creating a strong experience rewarding the user on for their engagement, by user standards. In practice, in order advance their career, these roles need a narrative of wins they can sell to higher management. That usually means change one can take credit for, if possible paired with a metric management is invested in. Sometimes this metric is even connected with a rewarding experience for users. Sometimes. The incentive for change is there, though, regardless, at least as long as there's money in the dev budget for it.

Spotify Specifically: was founded under the premise that consumers could be drawn into a product that acts like a record collection buffet in the cloud, but only pay broadcast prices! (ie, free or flat rate). This premise was correct, but also relied on the idea that Spotify was entitled to pay artists broadcast-royalties while effect occupying the space where recording royalties used to live, cannibalizing the market for recordings. And so you get execs telling artists that it's "entitled" to want rates as high as a penny a listen for their music and Spotify wasn't built to solve the problem of artists getting paid it was built to solve the problem of piracy (artists not being able to get paid or set their prices is indistinguishable from the problems of piracy). [0] This tells us that either Spotify isn't getting enough revenue to pay a penny a stream, or it feels entitled to keep what it is collecting.

And here's what else we know about Spotify: their revenue per user is essentially fixed. Their model doesn't have much in the way to collect more from a user based off the users own values/actions. They can increase ads, but that's probably not a user driven win. What else can they do?

Well, they can do what the rest of the social media companies do with their feeds. Randomize appearance of content, mix in known engaging user rewards with other things that let Spotify sell user attention -- to a label or individual trying to promote music/audio in a given space, to third parties wanting to advertise or place another content.

That degrades user experience? Sure. You think the company that is founded down to the core on exploitation cares even a little bit about that? Especially now that they're such a huge name in music they outshine Apple in a lot of markets?

Eventually, I suppose, other people will be dissatisfied in the same ways you are and maybe in a snowballing number of ways caused by the kind of bad-incentives driven rot. But it's likely to be a long slow ride down the curve, with an exodus as fast and complete as FB.

[0] https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2021/06/29/spotify-executiv...

Re: Apps Getting Worse

#147

Evernote. Evernote used to be a crucial component of my life. Quietly synced my notes between my computer and my phone. Let me collaborate with my husband on a few things. Then they rewrote it from the ground up as a sluggish piece of Electron crap. Added a bunch of new stuff that sure looks pretty but gets in the way of the core function of “taking out your phone and scribbling down an idea before it vanishes”. I co…

On the other hand, evernote had painted itself in the corner with the plethora of native apps without a common codebase: new features (even the crappy “enterprise” ones) had stopped coming. Now Evernote is releasing new features every couple of months and while it still not feature complete when compared with the old iOS or Mac native apps at least it has chance to compete. I switched to DEVONthink earlier this year…

I don't want new features. I do want cross platform, native apps (Linux, MacOS and Android for me). I've yet to find a good solution that "just works".

Re: Apps Getting Worse

#148

The worst offender recently in my opinion is Spotify on desktop. It used to be that when you clicked on an artists page you would see all the music tracks listed. Now it's all buried deep in and you have to search through the individual albums. Even the list of albums itself is not shown on the main artist page, you have to click "See Discography" first. The "Home" page is even worse. Where is my discover weekly play…

I hope people will use Spotify as a case study in how to fuck up a UI over time. The service itself is fine, I quite like some of the music it finds for me on discover, but the UI is on a slow death march towards complete uselessness, and some features have always been hopelessly broken (queuing). From a business standpoint I find it fascinating. It's about as perfect as an example it gets of "if it ain't broke, don'…

>I hope people will use Spotify as a case study in how to fuck up a UI over time.

My favorite regression is probably how the Windows client finally had type-to-search functionality for adding new songs to an existing playlist, and now it doesn't again. The Linux client still has it though!

This is to say nothing of their radio algorithm regression.

Re: Apps Getting Worse

#149

The worst offender recently in my opinion is Spotify on desktop. It used to be that when you clicked on an artists page you would see all the music tracks listed. Now it's all buried deep in and you have to search through the individual albums. Even the list of albums itself is not shown on the main artist page, you have to click "See Discography" first. The "Home" page is even worse. Where is my discover weekly play…

I hope people will use Spotify as a case study in how to fuck up a UI over time. The service itself is fine, I quite like some of the music it finds for me on discover, but the UI is on a slow death march towards complete uselessness, and some features have always been hopelessly broken (queuing). From a business standpoint I find it fascinating. It's about as perfect as an example it gets of "if it ain't broke, don'…

We can only blame ourselves for Spotify's bad UI! (jk) Spotify uses an internal experimentation platform that guides which features they determine are successful, based upon how our usage moves their metrics: https://engineering.atspotify.com/2020/10/29/spotifys-new-ex...

So, basically, the bad UI is improving their metrics. Or something. Maybe this is a case of experimentation gone wrong.

Re: Apps Getting Worse

#150

> It’s obvious. Every high-tech company has people called “Product Managers” (PMs) whose job it is to work with customers and management and engineers to define what products should do. No PM in history has ever said “This seems to be working pretty well, let’s leave it the way it is.” Because that’s not bold. That’s not visionary. That doesn’t get you promoted This mentality isn't unique to product managers. Mobile…

> iOS developers wanted to rewrite everything in Swift

Swift is hardly new anymore... are you going to maintain an ObjC codebase in perpetuity?

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