Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#31

Post by bigwally » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:08 AM UTC

colinplamondon wrote: post #24

heyimfromreddit wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I am. But there is still some truth in there. Some CBP officers are friendly... many are not. Upon entering the U.S. you effectively have no rights whatsoever. Whether or not you're allowed to enter the country is entirely at the discretion of the CBP officer you happen to get, and you have no right to appeal their decision. Run into one who's having a bad day and doesn't like the look of you and you're scr…

That's the awesome thing about sovereignty- we get to run background checks and see if someone's been hanging out in Pakistan Frontier Provinces or Yemen lately. If someone looks sketchy, we boot them out. Coming to an expensive first world country with $600 for 2 weeks is pretty clearly sketchy. CBPs make wrong decisions sometimes. This wasn't one of those times.

> we get to run background checks and see if someone's been hanging out in Pakistan Frontier Provinces or Yemen lately.

You are overestimating the competence of the US government.

> If someone looks sketchy, we boot them out.

So dress nice and talk a lot of crap and they let you in.

>CBPs make wrong decisions sometimes. This wasn't one of those times.

Yay for security theater. I am glad someone feels safer.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#32

Post by westicle » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:16 AM UTC

mullr wrote: post #15

CaveTech wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confused about the definition of befuddle. be·fud·dle 1. To confuse; perplex. 2. To stupefy with or as if with alcoholic drink. Customs agents didn't flag him for his involvement in bitcoin; they didn't understand what it was and how he could possibly fund his trip with it.

I DO know what bitcoin is, and I don't understand how he could possibly fund his trip with it. Doesn't seem like the top of the list for liquid assets, i.e. what you need when travelling. Part of their job is to make sure you can fund your trip. This guy couldn't, from a variety of reasonable interpretations.

You genuinely don't understand how he could possibly fund his trip with bitcoins?

Or are you exaggerating to make a point?

I think it is conceivable that he could fund his trip by bartering for the majority of his food and/or lodging using bitcoins. That is, it is a possibility that there are people in the United States who will accept bitcoins in return for providing food and/or lodging. And presumably as a "digital currency guru" he would be able to identify those people and effect payment with the agreed upon medium.

He even has a fallback option of cash if there is something he cannot acquire through the use of this bitcoins.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#33

Post by zzygan » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:22 AM UTC

andrewpi wrote: post #8

I wonder if the customs agents also had a problem with him trying to do work in the United States while here under the Visa Waiver Program?

As an Australian citizen who has recently traveled to the US under the Visa waiver program with the sole purpose of working (I was sent to the US by my employer), I can say pretty definitively that they dont have an issue with working as long as you have a return ticket (which they checked out in my case)

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#34

Post by mckoss » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:25 AM UTC

mullr wrote: post #15

CaveTech wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confused about the definition of befuddle. be·fud·dle 1. To confuse; perplex. 2. To stupefy with or as if with alcoholic drink. Customs agents didn't flag him for his involvement in bitcoin; they didn't understand what it was and how he could possibly fund his trip with it.

I DO know what bitcoin is, and I don't understand how he could possibly fund his trip with it. Doesn't seem like the top of the list for liquid assets, i.e. what you need when travelling. Part of their job is to make sure you can fund your trip. This guy couldn't, from a variety of reasonable interpretations.

I had cash in my office ready to exchange for Bitcoin when Nefario was to come to Seattle. It's no different than trading at MtGox.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#35

Post by mckoss » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:30 AM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #7

Nothing in the story says he was flagged for deeper interviewing because of his involvement with Bitcoin. He told the agent he was saying for two months on $600 USD and, making an assumption here, no credit cards or anything else to supplement his stay. How do we know he wasn't flagged under a different rule, such as "$100 a week in the US? Maybe he's taking a temporary job. Let's look further". Border agents hate fi…

The Visa Waiver program allows "business" travel to the US. I think Nefario's planned activities are allowed:

"Independent research, no salary/income from a US based source, or benefit to US institution."

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#36

Post by abalashov » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 4:52 AM UTC

I am most concerned about why they made copies of his iPhone and iPad. I'm not going to sit here and pick apart whether they had a "right" to do that -- it has long been abundantly clear that customs Gestapo can arbitrarily assign whatever rights they want to themselves, with full legislative and judicial blessing, in the name of security theater. But why? What did he do that earned this treatment?

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#37

Post by vessenes » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 5:46 AM UTC

I worked out the plan (well, mostly just said "okay") when Nefario suggested coming out to Seattle to try and launch a Bitcoin Incubator.

Knowing him a little (over skype), I'm not surprised things went badly at the border -- he's got a sort of sweet naive / anti-banking system mix in his persona; from what he told me, it was a tough and stressful spot -- interrogation tactics at the end of two+ days of travel..

I'm bummed, though. I was thinking that it would be excellent to have a physical location for bitcoin development in the US as a sort of center of gravity. mckoss was kicking in some office space at StartPad, what wasn't to like?

I'm not clear now what a good plan would be.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#38

Post by joelthelion » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 5:53 AM UTC

vessenes wrote: post #37

I worked out the plan (well, mostly just said "okay") when Nefario suggested coming out to Seattle to try and launch a Bitcoin Incubator. Knowing him a little (over skype), I'm not surprised things went badly at the border -- he's got a sort of sweet naive / anti-banking system mix in his persona; from what he told me, it was a tough and stressful spot -- interrogation tactics at the end of two+ days of travel.. I'm…

Maybe he can come back with dollars in his pocket this time?

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#39

Post by jrockway » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 6:50 AM UTC

mckoss wrote: post #35

joezydeco wrote: post #7

Nothing in the story says he was flagged for deeper interviewing because of his involvement with Bitcoin. He told the agent he was saying for two months on $600 USD and, making an assumption here, no credit cards or anything else to supplement his stay. How do we know he wasn't flagged under a different rule, such as "$100 a week in the US? Maybe he's taking a temporary job. Let's look further". Border agents hate fi…

The Visa Waiver program allows "business" travel to the US. I think Nefario's planned activities are allowed: "Independent research, no salary/income from a US based source, or benefit to US institution."

Indeed. The key to dealing with the US government, in my experience, is telling them what they want to hear. When asked, "how much money do you have access to", just do the BTC to USD conversion in your head and quote that number. They are not going to check your bank balance while you're in line at immigration.

The best part is, you are not even lying.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#40

Post by jrockway » Wed, Jul 27, 2011, 6:52 AM UTC

bdonlan wrote: post #28

chc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, he was on a Visa Waiver, so I don't think that applies.

You can only get a visa waiver if you fall within the requirements of a tourist visa, plus additional restrictions. And visa waiver entry still requires that you fill out a customs form.

If you are carrying more than $10,000 worth of securities or cash, you have to declare that. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with owning more than $10,000 worth of securities and liquidating them while you're visiting the US.

Here's the official government documentation on the matter:

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/newsroom/publications/tr...

"If you receive in the US, currency ... exceeding $10,0000 at one time ... you must file Form 105."