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The Principles of Newspeak (1949)

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21–30 of 145 posts

Re: The Principles of Newspeak (1949)

#21
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orwell was a leftist, but also opposed totalitarian societies. "1984" was a dystopia to expose such totalitarian societies. Unfortunately, much of what he described as a horror scenario in "1984" is already reality today, without people being bothered by it anymore.

How do you define 'leftist'? Orwell also wrote Animal Farm, which is critical of communism.

[deleted]

Re: The Principles of Newspeak (1949)

#22

"The purpose of Newspeak was not only to provide a medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to the devotees of Ingsoc, but to make all other modes of thought impossible" I'm genuinely curious do the woke brigades of twitter not have the self awareness to recognize what they're doing? Or do they just not care? Would they be happy with a language designed to make 'harmful' thinking impossible?

It's not the cognitive dissonance that one would assume it to be. They've studied their methods well. Marx and Mao would be proud.

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herse...

Re: The Principles of Newspeak (1949)

#23
post #3
post #2

[flagged]

Orwell was a leftist, but also opposed totalitarian societies. "1984" was a dystopia to expose such totalitarian societies. Unfortunately, much of what he described as a horror scenario in "1984" is already reality today, without people being bothered by it anymore.

Perfectly reasonable comments like the grandparent being flagged and killed so quickly... looks like the ministry of truth is staying busy.

EDIT: I guarantee you everyone working at the ministry of truth thought they were the good guys, too.

Re: The Principles of Newspeak (1949)

#25
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orwell was a leftist, but also opposed totalitarian societies. "1984" was a dystopia to expose such totalitarian societies. Unfortunately, much of what he described as a horror scenario in "1984" is already reality today, without people being bothered by it anymore.

Perfectly reasonable comments like the grandparent being flagged and killed so quickly... looks like the ministry of truth is staying busy. EDIT: I guarantee you everyone working at the ministry of truth thought they were the good guys, too.

Yes, it almost looks like society values censorship more than free speech these days.

Re: The Principles of Newspeak (1949)

#26
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Orwell was a leftist, but also opposed totalitarian societies. "1984" was a dystopia to expose such totalitarian societies. Unfortunately, much of what he described as a horror scenario in "1984" is already reality today, without people being bothered by it anymore.

How do you define 'leftist'? Orwell also wrote Animal Farm, which is critical of communism.

Looks like you got a lot of answers already; if you're interested, there are good biographies; also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell is quite good.

Re: The Principles of Newspeak (1949)

#27

Newspeak's goal of a complete regularization of English, and the elimination of all redundant forms, is actually an interesting idea IMO. Business jargon often moves in this direction, e.g. "learnings" instead of "lessons". And it's not always a horrible dystopian idea - Chinese has standardized over time and become more accessible to the masses with each iteration. EDIT: I apologize for my doubleplusungood thoughtcr…

Orwell believed if language is pared down, so too are thoughts.

Making a language regular and less broken isn't the same as reducing it's cognitive power though.

Think of it like this: if we made English even less regular would it make us better and freer thinkers? Of course not! It would probably make it harder to think clearly. A good example is how counting is hard to learn because the words are weirdband illogical. It's like converting between roman and Arabic numerals.

Re: The Principles of Newspeak (1949)

#28
Esperanto probably inspired Orwell on this, at least to an extent. He knew several Esperantists. Most of the "A vocabulary" rules are similar, like valuing regularities. I wonder if he hated esperanto, or just conveniently borrowed the feel of an artificial language from it.

To me, the euphemisation aspects of newspeak are the most "orwellian." IE, they're most likely to trigger that reference. Orwell himself complained about politicians and they're euphemisms. I think that's the part, above all that was drawn from current reality, and applies most readily in other times.

Somewhat related/noteworthy. Contrary to what I assume was common in his leftist circles at the time, Orwell was not enamoured with either Trotskyism or Irish Republicanism. I suspect the use of euphemism was one of the things that triggered him.

Re: The Principles of Newspeak (1949)

#29
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you define 'leftist'? Orwell also wrote Animal Farm, which is critical of communism.

Orwell was a socialist, and he supported democratic socialism, but he vehemently opposed (and wrote Animal Farm as a mocking satire of) totalitarian Soviet communism[0], which he didn't consider to be socialist at all. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Orwell#Politics

Okay, so now we're getting somewhere. He was a socialist, but not a leftist. So were the NAZIs right wing or left wing?

Re: The Principles of Newspeak (1949)

#30

Esperanto probably inspired Orwell on this, at least to an extent. He knew several Esperantists. Most of the "A vocabulary" rules are similar, like valuing regularities. I wonder if he hated esperanto, or just conveniently borrowed the feel of an artificial language from it. To me, the euphemisation aspects of newspeak are the most "orwellian." IE, they're most likely to trigger that reference. Orwell himself complai…

When did he speak out against Trotskyism? He fought with a Trotskyist militia in Spain.
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