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When Patents Attack

npr.org

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Re: When Patents Attack

#41

Post by semiquaver »

gord wrote: post #36
almightygod wrote: post #3

I get anxious every time I read another patent troll story wondering when my weekend creations will end up costing me $ when they accidentally infringe on a patent because I roll out some seemingly ubiquitous feature. I'm deeply saddened by this mess and doubt it will ever be resolved. There is far to much money at stake now to revert things - money = lobbying.

Actually, there may be a moral responsibility on all of us developers/hackers to make it obvious to the general public how ridiculous most sw patents are. For example, we could apply machine learning / data mining to categorise patents so that we can say patent N, M and L are 95% equivalent in some well defined sense. ie. we could fight back with firm data which ridicules the Patent system into revamp or obsolescence…

Listen to the this american life story, they mention a piece of software used by patent lawyers which does basically that.

Re: When Patents Attack

#42

Post by MikeCapone »

monochromatic wrote: post #9
almightygod wrote: post #3

I get anxious every time I read another patent troll story wondering when my weekend creations will end up costing me $ when they accidentally infringe on a patent because I roll out some seemingly ubiquitous feature. I'm deeply saddened by this mess and doubt it will ever be resolved. There is far to much money at stake now to revert things - money = lobbying.

If it's any consolation, hearing from a patent troll means you've built a successful product.

That's like saying that hearing from the Mafia means you now have a successful business. Hoorah, I guess...

Re: When Patents Attack

#43

Post by mparr4 »

kenjackson wrote: post #32
rje wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all the indie devs that are getting letters from lodsys would tend to disagree with you about whether or not it's a 'real' issue.

For every indie dev getting a letter from Lodsys, there has been 100 indie devs that have failed for reasons unrelated to patents. I'm not saying that lawsuits don't happen, but they're rare.

But for every successful indie dev there are already many more unsuccessful ones irrespective of patents. The question is, how many successful devs get hit out of the pool of successful devs?

The odds are already pretty long for being a successful dev, but if these letters take out 10, 15, or 20% of the would-be successful ones, that's a big deal.

Re: When Patents Attack

#44

Post by dedicated »

I'm curious as who are the VC's who invested in IV? Are these typical tech VC's, or are they more of the private equity type that relish in making money off these so called opportunities or arbitrages that don't require actual productive work.

Re: When Patents Attack

#45

Post by AgentConundrum »

alkimie wrote: post #38
parallel wrote: post #31

Is this sort of thing an issue in other countries. I'm a tech founder in Australia. I don't think we have the same level of anxiety about being sued for unknowingly breaching a software patent. Can anyone comment on this? Is our patent system different or can we expect to see our industry similarly affected in the future?

Patents are territorial. That is, unless someone has filed an application (or designated Australia as part of a national phase of a Patent Cooperation Treaty (PCT) patent application, nothing will issue in Australia. Generally, companies try to figure out where their likely markets are, and where the expense can be justified. Australia is becoming more and more relevant, but it was not nearly as common to file there…

That's a bit reassuring to me. I'm not anyone special, but I've got some ideas I want to code up that likely won't get anyones attention. After seeing patent topics popping up here on HN so often, I'm seriously terrified of even being a programmer anymore. This stuff makes me want to give up and find a job digging ditches or something, Office Space style.

But, I'm Canadian. Your comment makes me feel a bit safer, but I have the feeling that little things like hosting the site in the US or collecting money from Google AdSense or an Amazon Affiliates account could make me horribly liable.

I know that rationally this practically a non-issue, since I'm such a low value target, but the fear is still there, lurking beneath the surface, scaring the hell out of me.

Re: When Patents Attack

#47

Post by vacri »

zinkem wrote: post #29
vacri wrote: post #27

Admittedly I stopped reading the article when I got to "IV isn't a patent troll, we're simply just a big patent market connecting suppliers to consumers" No, you're not simply a 'market'. A market doesn't come and sue you for buying your milk somewhere else.

You might want to finish the article.

I get that the article is against the patent process, and the downmodders don't seem to get that I was referring to IV's characterisation of itself, not npr's characterisation of IV - I thought it was clear where I was directing it due to the phrase "you're not a market".

I wasn't using 'patent troll' or any of the other terminology. I was pointing out a flaw in this guy's reasoning. Yes, I had only read 500 words into a 4000 word article. I'm now about halfway through and have scanned the rest of the article... and I don't see anything that invalidates my claim above. IV is not the 'market' that it says it is. If anything, I am supporting what npr is saying.

HN moderation is weird.

Re: When Patents Attack

#48

Post by adorton »

One of the best TAL episodes in recent memory. The story mentions that modern patents (specifically software patents) lack the novelty that the patent system was originally designed to encourage. Did patent laws change at some point in history to allow this to happen?

Re: When Patents Attack

#49

Post by rysulliv »

kenjackson wrote: post #32
rje wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all the indie devs that are getting letters from lodsys would tend to disagree with you about whether or not it's a 'real' issue.

For every indie dev getting a letter from Lodsys, there has been 100 indie devs that have failed for reasons unrelated to patents. I'm not saying that lawsuits don't happen, but they're rare.

I agree they are rare and there are 100 potential pitfals before patents would become a concern for a startup, but they are still starting to scare a lot of people with the current press they are getting. It is a tricky issue for me to decide on. On one hand I fully understand the need for patents, there would be a lot more horror stories of the little guys getting squashed without them. On the other hand I hate the way huge companies are using them as a revenue stream. I personal would like to see patents become unenforcible if you can not show that you are currently working on a product that utilizes the patent or have a product in production that utilizes it. Stop letting companies just own a patent for the hell of it.

Re: When Patents Attack

#50

Post by cpenner461 »

Serious question: can/do patent trolls go after open source projects? I'm not thinking of businesses who sell/support open source software (e.g. Red Hat), but would it be a viable "defense" for an indie dev to simply release their project as open source? I've got an idea for a "weekend project" or two that I could conceivably make a few bucks with, or I could release them as open source so that I can at least benefit from the idea without worrying (as much?) about being sued for violating a patent. On the one hand if I'm not making any money from it one would think that the trolls would go elsewhere, but then again...

Just looking for a general idea here, I'm not looking for official legal advice here... :-)

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