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Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

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Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#21

Post by barrkel »

chc wrote: post #11
CaveTech wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confused about the definition of befuddle. be·fud·dle 1. To confuse; perplex. 2. To stupefy with or as if with alcoholic drink. Customs agents didn't flag him for his involvement in bitcoin; they didn't understand what it was and how he could possibly fund his trip with it.

Or they didn't believe it was as good as cash, which is kind of a fair assessment. The guy he was going to meet might not have had the cash after all, and without a buyer, the Bitcoins have no intrinsic value. Saying that you have a suitcase full of collectable pins that you intend to trade with a guy for $1500 would probably not get you into the US either.

If you really had pins for trade, you'd have to declare them on the customs form (you'd be importing them), and selling them would likely count as commerce not valid for a tourist visa.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#22

Post by Astrohacker »

umright wrote: post #19

Advice for crossing the US Border. 1) You are there on a holiday. Telling them you are self employed and going to work in an office you are renting there is only asking for trouble. It confuses the hell out of them. You think where you do the work from doesn't matter, they think you need a visa. You lose. 2) If you are going for a conference, print the badge off before your flight and have it with you. 3) Email or up…

This is good advice, but of course it's pretty absurd that anyone has to take these steps to avoid the overly invasive US government.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#23

Post by chc »

barrkel wrote: post #21
chc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they didn't believe it was as good as cash, which is kind of a fair assessment. The guy he was going to meet might not have had the cash after all, and without a buyer, the Bitcoins have no intrinsic value. Saying that you have a suitcase full of collectable pins that you intend to trade with a guy for $1500 would probably not get you into the US either.

If you really had pins for trade, you'd have to declare them on the customs form (you'd be importing them), and selling them would likely count as commerce not valid for a tourist visa.

IIRC, he was on a Visa Waiver, so I don't think that applies.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#24

Post by colinplamondon »

heyimfromreddit wrote: post #4
esrauch wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure you are overgeneralizing there.

Of course I am. But there is still some truth in there. Some CBP officers are friendly... many are not. Upon entering the U.S. you effectively have no rights whatsoever. Whether or not you're allowed to enter the country is entirely at the discretion of the CBP officer you happen to get, and you have no right to appeal their decision. Run into one who's having a bad day and doesn't like the look of you and you're scr…

That's the awesome thing about sovereignty- we get to run background checks and see if someone's been hanging out in Pakistan Frontier Provinces or Yemen lately. If someone looks sketchy, we boot them out.

Coming to an expensive first world country with $600 for 2 weeks is pretty clearly sketchy.

CBPs make wrong decisions sometimes. This wasn't one of those times.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#25

Post by ars »

umright wrote: post #19

Advice for crossing the US Border. 1) You are there on a holiday. Telling them you are self employed and going to work in an office you are renting there is only asking for trouble. It confuses the hell out of them. You think where you do the work from doesn't matter, they think you need a visa. You lose. 2) If you are going for a conference, print the badge off before your flight and have it with you. 3) Email or up…

Option 1 is asking for serious trouble! Prison time even. Never lie to them.

Even if you just intend to visit and and up doing some work you'll get in deep trouble, but if you lie about it from the start it'll be much worse.

And they do sometimes check.

A tourist visa and a work visa are not interchangeable.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#26

Post by [deleted] »

colinplamondon wrote: post #24
heyimfromreddit wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I am. But there is still some truth in there. Some CBP officers are friendly... many are not. Upon entering the U.S. you effectively have no rights whatsoever. Whether or not you're allowed to enter the country is entirely at the discretion of the CBP officer you happen to get, and you have no right to appeal their decision. Run into one who's having a bad day and doesn't like the look of you and you're scr…

That's the awesome thing about sovereignty- we get to run background checks and see if someone's been hanging out in Pakistan Frontier Provinces or Yemen lately. If someone looks sketchy, we boot them out. Coming to an expensive first world country with $600 for 2 weeks is pretty clearly sketchy. CBPs make wrong decisions sometimes. This wasn't one of those times.

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#27

Post by groby_b »

colinplamondon wrote: post #24
heyimfromreddit wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I am. But there is still some truth in there. Some CBP officers are friendly... many are not. Upon entering the U.S. you effectively have no rights whatsoever. Whether or not you're allowed to enter the country is entirely at the discretion of the CBP officer you happen to get, and you have no right to appeal their decision. Run into one who's having a bad day and doesn't like the look of you and you're scr…

That's the awesome thing about sovereignty- we get to run background checks and see if someone's been hanging out in Pakistan Frontier Provinces or Yemen lately. If someone looks sketchy, we boot them out. Coming to an expensive first world country with $600 for 2 weeks is pretty clearly sketchy. CBPs make wrong decisions sometimes. This wasn't one of those times.

The problem is, the CBP people get to play god. They're (as far as I can tell) not bound by any rules.

Two examples:

When my dad wanted to come over, the US Embassy told him that technically, they can turn away people at the border for no reason except they don't like you.

When I first got here, many moons ago, I had a Visa from the US embassy inserted in my passport. Since the officer at the border was having a bad day (or whatever triggered this), he was asking for the full set of paperwork leading up to the Visa - two large binders with 500+ pages of paperwork.

----

I don't object to CBP being able to turn away people, that's reasonable. I object to there being no clear rules and regulations that you can check before you e.g. board a 12-hour transatlantic flight.

If, in the above example, there was a clear rule that you must bring $X per day, you could avoid this nonsense. But there isn't. It's entirely the border agents discretion.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#28

Post by bdonlan »

chc wrote: post #23
barrkel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really had pins for trade, you'd have to declare them on the customs form (you'd be importing them), and selling them would likely count as commerce not valid for a tourist visa.

IIRC, he was on a Visa Waiver, so I don't think that applies.

You can only get a visa waiver if you fall within the requirements of a tourist visa, plus additional restrictions. And visa waiver entry still requires that you fill out a customs form.

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#29

Post by cfgvjkljhgfb »

mullr wrote: post #15
CaveTech wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're confused about the definition of befuddle. be·fud·dle 1. To confuse; perplex. 2. To stupefy with or as if with alcoholic drink. Customs agents didn't flag him for his involvement in bitcoin; they didn't understand what it was and how he could possibly fund his trip with it.

I DO know what bitcoin is, and I don't understand how he could possibly fund his trip with it. Doesn't seem like the top of the list for liquid assets, i.e. what you need when travelling. Part of their job is to make sure you can fund your trip. This guy couldn't, from a variety of reasonable interpretations.

There are places where you can sell your bitcoins for worthless pieces of paper with pictures of dead US politician on them.

It's the same process that makes pork bellies exchangeable for bits of German automotive engineering

Re: Bitcoin befuddles US customs agents, thwarting visit by digital currency guru

#30

Post by cfgvjkljhgfb »

ars wrote: post #25
umright wrote: post #19

Advice for crossing the US Border. 1) You are there on a holiday. Telling them you are self employed and going to work in an office you are renting there is only asking for trouble. It confuses the hell out of them. You think where you do the work from doesn't matter, they think you need a visa. You lose. 2) If you are going for a conference, print the badge off before your flight and have it with you. 3) Email or up…

Option 1 is asking for serious trouble! Prison time even. Never lie to them. Even if you just intend to visit and and up doing some work you'll get in deep trouble, but if you lie about it from the start it'll be much worse. And they do sometimes check. A tourist visa and a work visa are not interchangeable.

He was on a visa waiver - if he is British that allows him to do anything you can do on a B1 business visa. In fact the only reason you have to get a B1 visa is because you can't use the visa waiver if you are, say a convicted criminal!

You can work for your outside-the-US employer, you can collaborate with US customers, suppliers, partners, you can train them,you can sell, demonstrate and install products. About the only thing you can't do is work for a US company.

Picture if he was an engineer from Rolls Royce aero engines going to Boeing - everything that engineer might need to do you can do on a visa waiver.

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