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After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

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Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#271

Post by rsynnott »

truetraveller wrote: post #155
Volundr wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec is common place. What?! I've worked with executives most of my career. Screaming was definitely not common place. I can only recall 2 examples, and neither lasted long or had any business being in a position of power. And what even is "involuntary screaming"? Has the executive just broken their leg or something? If so OK. But if they'…

I agree that is not "common place" in every industry. I've removed that bit. It does happen, and and it becomes "normalized" as "that manager is just being himself". But, there is no mention that he frequently screamed. Screaming once or twice, out of stress perhaps, is not "abusive". Definitely, one should make amends / be regretful of that.

> It does happen, and and it becomes "normalized" as "that manager is just being himself".

I mean, I'm sure it happens, but it's ultimately a sign that that manager's manager is not doing a good job.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#272

Post by sjg007 »

caddemon wrote: post #256
sjg007 wrote: post #94

AI researchers have so many options today. I’d be surprised if this hasn’t hurt Google’s and Deep Mind’s recruitment efforts.

There are also a lot of AI researchers today though. I'm not sure about higher level positions, but for current grad students and postdocs DeepMind is still a very sought after place to work.

Yes but you want the good ones.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#273

Post by beerandt »

Volundr wrote: post #172
truetraveller wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that is not "common place" in every industry. I've removed that bit. It does happen, and and it becomes "normalized" as "that manager is just being himself". But, there is no mention that he frequently screamed. Screaming once or twice, out of stress perhaps, is not "abusive". Definitely, one should make amends / be regretful of that.

Once or twice a year ? Maybe once or twice a career if a family member has just died or something I could excuse it. But multiple times a year is a pattern. I've somehow gone 10 years without screaming at an employee, and it's not something I'd tolerate from any of my managers. Definitely not from an executive. The higher your rise the more responsibility you have to model proper behavior. If you can't handle the str…

If yelling/lecturing/screaming at an employee gets the point across and prevents them from being fired, is it justified?

Assuming calmly and firmly hasn't worked.

Most of us are probably fortunate enough to have mature and cooperative coworkers, but that isn't always the case. Honest question.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#274

Post by torstenvl »

thereare5lights wrote: post #268
torstenvl wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make a personal attack and then suggest that I'm complicit in degrading social environments. Fascinating. ~_^ While I find your personal attack on me interesting from a sociological standpoint, would you mind answering the question?

On the contrary. At no point did I make a comment on your character or any other aspect of you personally. The only comments I made were specific towards your question and its implications. You can call it a personal attack if you wish. That doesn't make it true. > would you mind answering the question? I won't because as I pointed out already, your question comes from a flawed premise.

Oh dear. I am afraid I must have communicated poorly or perhaps you misread the question.

I am asking what the delta between set B (bullying) and set C (criminal activity) is. What false premise is there? If you don't think there's a delta, then you agree with me ab initio. If you do think there's a delta, then how can you say that asking what the delta is relies on a false premise?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#275

Post by beerandt »

contravariant wrote: post #217
oytis wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a total mystery to me why do people feel the urge to defend him. I kind of understand this in the case of technically brilliant but socially awkward people, but this guy seems to have done nothing but management in his life. And if this is how he's doing management then I don't understand why he's tolerated at all.

Well even in the cases of technically brilliant but socially awkward people it doesn't really make sense to place them high in the hierarchy. Unless they have no people directly under them, I suppose.

Even if they're only making technical decisions and not managing anyone directly, it still is going to result in employees being told to do what he commands.

You've either got power or don't, there's not much to being high-up if you're decisions don't carry much weight.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#276

Post by rsynnott »

babesh wrote: post #81
whoisjuan wrote: post #23

Don’t care about this guy, but why would they think that changes in the reporting hierarchy means a promotion? If my boss leaves then I would report to my skip in the interim and in many companies that’s forever. So just because there’s nobody between me and my skip I got promoted? That’s the most dumb rationale I have ever read. This guy was already the head of a prominent Alphabet division. If you move him around t…

Did I get promoted when I got that new title? - If I make more money, it is a promotion. If I didn't, it is a demotion. - If the number of reports increases, it is a promotion. If it decreases, it is a demotion. - If I have more areas reporting to me, it is a promotion. If I have fewer areas, then it is a demotion. - If I have greenfield projects under my direction, it is a promotion. If I have maintenance projects,…

> If I have greenfield projects under my direction, it is a promotion. If I have maintenance projects, it is a demotion.

This one's particularly dubious. Maintenance is important. Depending on your industry, it may be the most important thing.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#277

Post by rsynnott »

xioren00 wrote: post #38
paulryanrogers wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this reaction sarcastic? As if to say "I'm not afraid of people who boast of crushing others"?

Are you saying you would be afraid of this person for that comment? Part of being an adult is learning to deal with adversity.

I mean, I'm not sure that I'd be afraid of them; it comes across as kind of comical. Obviously, though, I don't think they'd make an appropriate people manager.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#278

Post by beerandt »

aaron-santos wrote: post #151
edgyquant wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> o - you have to ask - are you willing to lose your job over it? If so - great - see ya! If not - then take your lumps and get it done. This is ridiculous. Jobs have pretty clear, if arbitrary at times, functions. You wouldn’t ask a chef to brief you on Russian political history, a field of itself that is vastly nuanced just as much as AI itself, nor would you ask a data scientist. It isn’t because job function can’…

> without doing a deep dive and learning the field itself. My response would be to ask about the employer's continuing education program. I could see myself taking a Russian studies program and get that report back in 2-3 years if tuition and time was 100% covered by the employer.

This is the correct approach, if done properly.

If it really ends up being a useful task and not pointless, your boss should be willing to expend additional resources in addition to your time. You take it seriously, which requires additional resources if it's outside the scope of your job or knowledge.

And they should be happy to provide those resources if the task needs to be done.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#279

Post by refenestrator »

oytis wrote: post #88
sillysaurusx wrote: post #16

I see a lot of people saying this seems not a big deal, or that his leadership deserved promotion. It’s because this is a second order article. The original, most substantive source that I could find is quite thorough: https://archive.is/wqdkF > "He would ask us to do personal things for him," one of these people said. "He said, 'I need you to write a briefing for me on Russian history and politics.' [...] We had abs…

It's a total mystery to me why do people feel the urge to defend him. I kind of understand this in the case of technically brilliant but socially awkward people, but this guy seems to have done nothing but management in his life. And if this is how he's doing management then I don't understand why he's tolerated at all.

I'm stifling the urge, because the article does the typical thing where they categorize his douchiness as 'misbehavior' and then immediately pivot to talking about that sexual harassment walkout, using the term 'misconduct'. The fuck does 'misbehavior' even mean?

I'm automatically suspicious of people playing word-association games like that.

Sounds like the guy has poor emotional control and is only in his position due to right place, right time. Fortune passes everywhere.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#280

Post by babesh »

rsynnott wrote: post #276
babesh wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did I get promoted when I got that new title? - If I make more money, it is a promotion. If I didn't, it is a demotion. - If the number of reports increases, it is a promotion. If it decreases, it is a demotion. - If I have more areas reporting to me, it is a promotion. If I have fewer areas, then it is a demotion. - If I have greenfield projects under my direction, it is a promotion. If I have maintenance projects,…

> If I have greenfield projects under my direction, it is a promotion. If I have maintenance projects, it is a demotion. This one's particularly dubious. Maintenance is important. Depending on your industry, it may be the most important thing.

I didn’t say it wasn’t important. It is important. I was trying to say that there is a tendency in the tech industry to value new projects over maintenance. And this list was partly in jest.
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