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After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

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Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#161

Post by MisterBastahrd »

Closi wrote: post #114
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Because when you're as large as Google, you don't ask your underlings to write book reports on things that are of strategic business importance. You go through the proper channels and get them to hire qualified people to cut through the bullshit.

> you don't ask your underlings to write book reports on things that are of strategic business importance Of course you do, that's exactly how it works. Usually the 'underlings' do the research or collect information, and then the people higher up synthesise that information into a strategic decision.

No, you don't. Not when you literally have business units IN that country.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#162

Post by squarefoot »

edgyquant wrote: post #133
ATsch wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but a good architect bully is not a bit better than a bad manager bully.

You can tell the architect with no power over you to, politely, go fuck themselves. You can not do this to your manager.

True, although in a few cases I've witnessed the bully without superpowers becoming a lapdog of some higher level boss, so essentially all he had to do was go crying mommy to the boss to have someone moved to other tasks or fired. Bad bosses need lapdogs.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#163

Post by rdxm »

mattfrommars wrote: post #147

Does anyone know of good resource guide to climb up the corporate ladder? Apart being absolutely good at what you do and learning to communicate, what hard "things you should be doing" takes a good software developer climb up the ladder?

[dead]

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#164

Post by marcinzm »

mcguire wrote: post #157
marcinzm wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We had absolutely no work in Russia. Wouldn't the point of such a high level briefing be because they're tying to get work in Russia but don't already have any? It's rather common for employees to not know the details of the strategic plans of the executives until the execution starts.

Would you be comfortable writing a report on Russian political history? Remember, you can be fired for doing it badly, too.

In a good org you wouldn't be fired for doing a mediocre job. In a bad org you'd be fired for saying no. In either case trying is better than not trying.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#165

Post by [deleted] »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #16

I see a lot of people saying this seems not a big deal, or that his leadership deserved promotion. It’s because this is a second order article. The original, most substantive source that I could find is quite thorough: https://archive.is/wqdkF > "He would ask us to do personal things for him," one of these people said. "He said, 'I need you to write a briefing for me on Russian history and politics.' [...] We had abs…

[deleted]

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#166

Post by squarefoot »

mLuby wrote: post #128
ffhhj wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then subordinates must show their dominance not doing useless work. I've been in meetings in which I'm the one screaming to my boss in the face. When another boss tried to make me look bad with our superiors, I showed them their ineptitude and bully behavior. A few times had to quit a job due to the toxic environment, but always got more interesting and rewarding jobs. Never felt guilty about crushing a bully.

> subordinates must show their dominance That's how to get fired. If the boss says "do it" and you say "no" and you each hold your ground, eventually it gets to "do it or you're fired." (In a few companies it might be "do it or you're fired" vs "stop asking or I'll transfer" but it's rarely "stop asking or boss is fired.") A good boss won't let it to that, but that power over another—to hire, promote, and terminate—i…

That's why when any boss asks for something completely irrelevant for the job, in my opinion the correct approach would be to ask for a documented request. i.e. "please, send me an official email with your request". If the boss then goes crazy, then reveals he had no good intentions from start, and yes, it's definitely hard to fight back without eventually get to that point of no return. If that's the case, you then better leave that place before getting fired, which has the side effect of showing that you're not that easy to manipulate. It's not just about self esteem and/or testosterone however: any time diverted from the job to other things could impact the project, and doing that during your time means there's your name stuck to the job at that time; if something goes wrong because of the time spent doing other stuff then it is your fault, so he better gives some good official explanation for demanding that extra work.

(edit: moved under the right parent post)

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#167

Post by krapp »

truetraveller wrote: post #159
krapp wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they're without proof, how do you know they're exaggerated and dramatized? Were you there? Do you have the proof to the contrary?

The burden of proof is on the claimant. And if your gonna post a sensationalist article about it to the public, you better provide proof to the public. Don't just do character assassination on another fellow human.

You're the one claiming the story is exaggerated, dramatized, sensationalist and now character assassination.

This isn't a court of law, there is no "burden of proof." And if there were, you're clearly not willing to carry it yourself.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#168

Post by sebzim4500 »

babesh wrote: post #81
whoisjuan wrote: post #23

Don’t care about this guy, but why would they think that changes in the reporting hierarchy means a promotion? If my boss leaves then I would report to my skip in the interim and in many companies that’s forever. So just because there’s nobody between me and my skip I got promoted? That’s the most dumb rationale I have ever read. This guy was already the head of a prominent Alphabet division. If you move him around t…

Did I get promoted when I got that new title? - If I make more money, it is a promotion. If I didn't, it is a demotion. - If the number of reports increases, it is a promotion. If it decreases, it is a demotion. - If I have more areas reporting to me, it is a promotion. If I have fewer areas, then it is a demotion. - If I have greenfield projects under my direction, it is a promotion. If I have maintenance projects,…

What if some of those apply but not all? For example, I make more money than I used to but have fewer people below me. Have I been promoted or not?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#169

Post by mcguire »

prepend wrote: post #4

This article leaves out why he was promoted. I assume he was promoted despite the discipline, not as a reward. The article doesn’t research whether he’s reformed or still a bully. Or whether the position is important or not. These are important details. Maybe the position is BS and doesn’t have much authority. Maybe he’s learned the error of his ways. Without useful information this article is lame as it seems to lin…

As a general rule, in most places, getting suspended means your career is dead. You don't get promoted immediately afterwards.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#170

Post by truetraveller »

mcguire wrote: post #154
truetraveller wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're defending him because the accusations against him are egregiously exaggerated, and without proof. I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen, and in my opinion, cannot be called abusive. In fact, I would be upset if I had a sheep for an exec. I want a exec who is kind, and who can lead and is firm. Not screaming, but almost there.

" ...but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen,... " After about 30 years in the industry, I suggest you reconsider your experience. The only place I've worked that had any kind of executive screaming was IBM, which was completely disfunctional. Someone who involuntarily screams at a coworker is someone who needs help.

There's a difference between one-off and frequent. Very big difference. A question to everyone: You screamed at anyone, ever? Oh, you screamed once, 5 years ago? Now you're a bully.
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