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After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

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Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#151

Post by aaron-santos »

edgyquant wrote: post #125
bradlys wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

End of the day, it's a job. Requirements change. You have to do things you don't want to do that might not even seem related. If you don't want to work under someone who does that stuff then leave. I yelled at a CEO because he asked me to do something that wasn't related to software engineering role. He stopped asking me and anyone else in eng due to that confrontation. But - guess what - he wanted to fired every sin…

> o - you have to ask - are you willing to lose your job over it? If so - great - see ya! If not - then take your lumps and get it done. This is ridiculous. Jobs have pretty clear, if arbitrary at times, functions. You wouldn’t ask a chef to brief you on Russian political history, a field of itself that is vastly nuanced just as much as AI itself, nor would you ask a data scientist. It isn’t because job function can’…

> without doing a deep dive and learning the field itself.

My response would be to ask about the employer's continuing education program. I could see myself taking a Russian studies program and get that report back in 2-3 years if tuition and time was 100% covered by the employer.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#152

Post by [deleted] »

ffhhj wrote: post #66
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's personal because it's not work-related. He would demand people do random, pointless tasks for him to show dominance.

Then subordinates must show their dominance not doing useless work. I've been in meetings in which I'm the one screaming to my boss in the face. When another boss tried to make me look bad with our superiors, I showed them their ineptitude and bully behavior. A few times had to quit a job due to the toxic environment, but always got more interesting and rewarding jobs. Never felt guilty about crushing a bully.

[deleted]

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#153

Post by mach_architect »

iamleppert wrote: post #35

He looks like one of those creepy guys at a nightclub who stands in the corner by himself that everyone avoids. A classic case of overcompensating at work due to severe deficiency in other areas of his life.

What's wrong with his physical appearance? Would you write the same thing if he was a black man?

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#154

Post by mcguire »

truetraveller wrote: post #129
oytis wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a total mystery to me why do people feel the urge to defend him. I kind of understand this in the case of technically brilliant but socially awkward people, but this guy seems to have done nothing but management in his life. And if this is how he's doing management then I don't understand why he's tolerated at all.

We're defending him because the accusations against him are egregiously exaggerated, and without proof. I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen, and in my opinion, cannot be called abusive. In fact, I would be upset if I had a sheep for an exec. I want a exec who is kind, and who can lead and is firm. Not screaming, but almost there.

"...but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen,..."

After about 30 years in the industry, I suggest you reconsider your experience. The only place I've worked that had any kind of executive screaming was IBM, which was completely disfunctional.

Someone who involuntarily screams at a coworker is someone who needs help.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#155

Post by truetraveller »

Volundr wrote: post #140
truetraveller wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're defending him because the accusations against him are egregiously exaggerated, and without proof. I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen, and in my opinion, cannot be called abusive. In fact, I would be upset if I had a sheep for an exec. I want a exec who is kind, and who can lead and is firm. Not screaming, but almost there.

> I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec is common place. What?! I've worked with executives most of my career. Screaming was definitely not common place. I can only recall 2 examples, and neither lasted long or had any business being in a position of power. And what even is "involuntary screaming"? Has the executive just broken their leg or something? If so OK. But if they'…

I agree that is not "common place" in every industry. I've removed that bit. It does happen, and and it becomes "normalized" as "that manager is just being himself".

But, there is no mention that he frequently screamed. Screaming once or twice, out of stress perhaps, is not "abusive". Definitely, one should make amends / be regretful of that.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#156

Post by AussieWog93 »

edgyquant wrote: post #125
bradlys wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

End of the day, it's a job. Requirements change. You have to do things you don't want to do that might not even seem related. If you don't want to work under someone who does that stuff then leave. I yelled at a CEO because he asked me to do something that wasn't related to software engineering role. He stopped asking me and anyone else in eng due to that confrontation. But - guess what - he wanted to fired every sin…

> o - you have to ask - are you willing to lose your job over it? If so - great - see ya! If not - then take your lumps and get it done. This is ridiculous. Jobs have pretty clear, if arbitrary at times, functions. You wouldn’t ask a chef to brief you on Russian political history, a field of itself that is vastly nuanced just as much as AI itself, nor would you ask a data scientist. It isn’t because job function can’…

>This is ridiculous. Jobs have pretty clear, if arbitrary at times, functions.

In large organisations, yes. If you work for yourself or for a startup, though, you're typically just doing whatever needs to be done.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#157

Post by mcguire »

marcinzm wrote: post #31
sillysaurusx wrote: post #16

I see a lot of people saying this seems not a big deal, or that his leadership deserved promotion. It’s because this is a second order article. The original, most substantive source that I could find is quite thorough: https://archive.is/wqdkF > "He would ask us to do personal things for him," one of these people said. "He said, 'I need you to write a briefing for me on Russian history and politics.' [...] We had abs…

>We had absolutely no work in Russia. Wouldn't the point of such a high level briefing be because they're tying to get work in Russia but don't already have any? It's rather common for employees to not know the details of the strategic plans of the executives until the execution starts.

Would you be comfortable writing a report on Russian political history? Remember, you can be fired for doing it badly, too.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#158

Post by truetraveller »

mLuby wrote: post #137
truetraveller wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're defending him because the accusations against him are egregiously exaggerated, and without proof. I'm against screaming, but infrequent/involuntary screaming by a very senior exec does happen, and in my opinion, cannot be called abusive. In fact, I would be upset if I had a sheep for an exec. I want a exec who is kind, and who can lead and is firm. Not screaming, but almost there.

> screaming by a very senior exec is common place and cannot be called abusive It is possible that what's been acceptable for a long time is no longer okay. At the very least, I'd say tantrum are unprofessional; After all, if the exec is losing their shit over something minor, how can I trust them to keep a level head if things really get challenging? But maybe some people respond better to the stick than to the carr…

I'm against screaming. But doing someone once or twice in year, is not the same as doing something everyday. There's no mention, at all, about how frequent his outbursts / yelling / screaming was. This is precisely the issue.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#159

Post by truetraveller »

krapp wrote: post #141
truetraveller wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. These accusations are exaggerated and without proof. Put yourself in his shoes. Would you like random internet people to accuse you with dramatized statements and/or exaggerations?

If they're without proof, how do you know they're exaggerated and dramatized? Were you there? Do you have the proof to the contrary?

The burden of proof is on the claimant. And if your gonna post a sensationalist article about it to the public, you better provide proof to the public. Don't just do character assassination on another fellow human.

Re: After DeepMind’s cofounder was placed on leave for bullying, Google promoted him

#160

Post by Guthur »

oytis wrote: post #88
sillysaurusx wrote: post #16

I see a lot of people saying this seems not a big deal, or that his leadership deserved promotion. It’s because this is a second order article. The original, most substantive source that I could find is quite thorough: https://archive.is/wqdkF > "He would ask us to do personal things for him," one of these people said. "He said, 'I need you to write a briefing for me on Russian history and politics.' [...] We had abs…

It's a total mystery to me why do people feel the urge to defend him. I kind of understand this in the case of technically brilliant but socially awkward people, but this guy seems to have done nothing but management in his life. And if this is how he's doing management then I don't understand why he's tolerated at all.

Because some of us are getting really tired of these witch hunts. Was he an ahole, possibly. Did Google value his contribution, probably. Did he commit any crime, doubtful.

Humans are all deeply flawed and if you were to pick enough sound bites about someone across a long enough period of time you could paint them as monsters. This current climate of holier than thou rhetoric is becoming increasingly poisonous.

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