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Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

clivethompson.medium.com

71–80 of 375 posts

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#71

For me a part of the melancholy feeling comes from the indignity of being forced to prove I'm human, and then the frustration at this stupid world we've created which requires me to do so which immediately follows the indignity. A website with captchas is like a retail store with metal detectors; it's not somewhere I feel welcome.

I'd be sort of okay with the general idea of proving I'm not a robot, you know what really rubs me the wrong way?

It's how blatantly dishonest and disrespectful it is. Let me explain: google decides if you're human based on the data it has on you, such as your browsing profile and whether you're logged in to your Google account. Therefore it punishes you for trying to have privacy or refusing to use google services, at which point it will:

- Give you longer captchas

- Fade images in slower, something whose purpose can only possible be to annoy you for daring to refuse to submit to google's profiling, since bots don't care about that

- Even falsely claim you failed captchas even if you get them right

Fuck that!

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#72

> Part of it is the sheer hassle of repeatedly identifying objects — traffic lights, staircases, palm trees and buses — just so I can finish a web search. Does Google ask you to complete a CAPTCHA to run a web search? I've never experienced that - is that a thing?

If you're not in the US, all the time.

Just searching for documentation on not so well known libraries/errors will often trigger it for me, and I'm talking like 5-10 manual (read: typed by myself into a browser) searches will trigger a Captcha on Google.

Google positions that it suspects suspicious activity from my IP, but hard to guess how they classify this, as it's a stock browser with ublock* that I use every day.

reCaptcha and basically everything Google touches is awful to use outside of the US in my opinion. And I'm still not sure how their full window modal for Google Search Accepting Privacy hasn't been hit by a huge fine by the EU yet, since you absolutely cannot use Google without either blocking the model or going in and agreeing to "something" (you are allowed to turn off several options, but Google will send cookies and instructs you to set your browser to refuse cookies if you don't want them), which I'm positive is really not what GDPR was about at all.

This is part of why I'm against what a lot of US based tech companies do with the Web...they're happy to take money and personal information (forcibly) from non-US persons, but will not give them the same courtesies.

* Of course, maybe that does it...

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#73

I've read the whole article, and I see so many comments agreeing or even adding detail to the post. Am I really in the minority if this kind of thing couldn't even cross my mind or feels like written by someone living in a parallel universe? A few poorly shot street photos are "unbearably depressing"? And there's even a detailed explanation breaking it down into points, each one feeling more alien than the last. They…

How many times have you gotten locked out by a captcha?

I don't mean "try again," I mean the neverending cycle of "try again" that completely prohibits you from going about a particular piece of business.

My guess: you are US-informed enough, neurotypical enough, good enough at guessing constraints to fix underdetermined prompts, and use proxies little enough that capchas have never been more than an annoyance for you. Please understand that your experience is not universal.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#74

> Google’s CAPTCHA images are frequently grainy and badly focused. This is likely because, as Vox points out, Google has gone through most of the easy visual-recognition training cases, where the pictures were clear and sharp. Now they’re stuck with the hard stuff, which tend to be pictures of terrible quality. While this is true, I think some of the artifacts in the accompanying example are added by Google as a sort…

Certainly you get much harder and noisier recaptchas if the model has a higher prior prediction of your bot-ness. Try browsing around from sketchy Tor exit nodes or some proxies from the free proxy lists on the internet for a bit.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#75

This is making me wonder if the experience is intentionally so bleak. It reminds me of how nowadays when I do an incognito Google search on my phone, I need three taps just to accept the terms of service. Same with YouTube. Maybe this level of cumbersomeness is somehow legally required now, but I find it more likely that this is an attempt to subconsciously encourage people to not browse incognito—so that they can be…

It does feel like a similar sort of thing to how fag packets are this horrible murky brown with bleak pictures in them in the UK.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#76
post #72

> Part of it is the sheer hassle of repeatedly identifying objects — traffic lights, staircases, palm trees and buses — just so I can finish a web search. Does Google ask you to complete a CAPTCHA to run a web search? I've never experienced that - is that a thing?

If you're not in the US, all the time. Just searching for documentation on not so well known libraries/errors will often trigger it for me, and I'm talking like 5-10 manual (read: typed by myself into a browser) searches will trigger a Captcha on Google. Google positions that it suspects suspicious activity from my IP, but hard to guess how they classify this, as it's a stock browser with ublock* that I use every day…

> If you're not in the US, all the time.

I'm not in the US, never seen it.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I end up failing them deliberately. I can't boycott them because they're often in the way of important sites. So my small, practically invisible protest is to never click more than 3 times. If you want me to pick out all the bicycles, you better have 3 or less. I'm only clicking 3. I fully understand this isn't going to have any effect. Maybe if a million of us were doing it, it would. But it still makes me…

True civil disobedience would be clicking the non-bikes.

Back when captchas were about optical character recognition, it was obvious which words came from actual books. Plenty of people would input offensive words instead of the correct answer. I hope it had an effect but it probably didn't.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#78

I've read the whole article, and I see so many comments agreeing or even adding detail to the post. Am I really in the minority if this kind of thing couldn't even cross my mind or feels like written by someone living in a parallel universe? A few poorly shot street photos are "unbearably depressing"? And there's even a detailed explanation breaking it down into points, each one feeling more alien than the last. They…

It's for this very reason I'm so happy to see something like this article on HN, and I'm so happy to see your comment too.

I think I know exactly where you're coming from -- I was exactly the same way when I was younger. I was 100% extremely logical, and my emotional awareness was... exceedingly underdeveloped.

Long story short, I got into different artistic pursuits where I was forced to develop my emotional awareness of these things, multi-hour classes with other artists where all we'd do would be to analyze these types of things.

And after a long period of great frustration, all of a sudden, it's like the world went from black and white into color. There was emotional resonance everywhere where I hadn't seen it before. It was like I was finally speaking a language a lot of other people seemed to just be born with. And social interactions got a lot... easier.

I also realized that my emotional surroundings had always affected my mood etc., I just had never been able to pay attention to how. So while I was consciously blind to it, I was still subconsciously 100% affected.

So there's absolutely nothing "wrong" with the author's psyche... but nothing's "wrong" with yours either, you just haven't had the practice/opportunity to develop this side of things. You're not dissociating from reality... but at the same time there absolutely is a reality that you haven't developed skills to see. And it absolutely has nothing to do with age or country.

If it's a skill you want to develop, there's no single answer. The general idea of "emotional intelligence education" is one approach, fields like art history, film criticism, literature and poetry are others. Even activities like yoga and meditation can help since emotional awareness is both mental and bodily. Ultimately the more you expose yourself to things combined with seeing how other people respond to the same things and finding little pieces in common with them, it'll eventually start to "click".

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#79
post #68

As far as I understood the problem with Captcha was and is that it is too American not in a bad sense but culturally. People coming and using the Internet from developing countries might not be able to solve Captcha because their culture is different. I was thinking how to solve this problem and I came to the conclusion that it is very hard to design puzzle for every country in the world so I decided to put them in c…

> My solution was to use webcam if available and make people wave hand or some other gesture in order to verify that you are really human. This seems even worse to me. Wave at the camera to prove you are human... This is a whole other level of creepy above depressing captchas. I would not do this, ever.

My solution was all about solving cultural problem of captcha as well as security by that I mean automated bots exploiting and solving captcha en masse. Ofc the service would guarantee you privacy I don't need to keep the video footage of you or the mic footage I would delete it immediately when the captcha task is solved.

You would need to trust the service the same like people are trusting logless VPN providers with their sensitive internet traffic logs.

Re: Captcha pictures force you to look at the world the way an AI does

#80

For me a part of the melancholy feeling comes from the indignity of being forced to prove I'm human, and then the frustration at this stupid world we've created which requires me to do so which immediately follows the indignity. A website with captchas is like a retail store with metal detectors; it's not somewhere I feel welcome.

So I'm member of a a religious (yogic) organisation and we have our own little chanting on Saturdays. When Covid broke out this obviously became impossible so we decided to have our meetings on Zoom instead. Now we have one woman in our group with some intellectual disability, a wonderful, sweet woman with the kindest heart in the world. Being 100% computer illiterate, she still decided to buy a tablet so she could follow the meetings on Zoom from her home. It fell to me to explain to her the whole process of opening a mail (she didn't know what an inbox was), clicking the Zoom link, clicking yes etc.. every little detail I had to explain repeatedly. It was a challenge but we slodged through the whole thing and she stayed positive and courageous throughout.

Imagine how mortified I was when we reached the last steps and I had to explain to her 'and NOW.. after all that... you have to click on all the tiles with traffic lights'.

She looked at me and asked with childlike innocence and wonder "but WHY do I have to click all the tiles that contain a traffic light?"

I could not reasonably answer that question but I came close to saying "dear Kristine, throw this tablet in the garbage, none of this is going to make you happier"

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