Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence • Hacker News Board

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#331

Post by dear » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 7:33 PM UTC

Aunche wrote: post #40

exo-pla-net wrote: post #14

This is an article spun to make controversy out of nothing. The narrative is that a student tweeted something critical about China, and the CCP pressured his advisor into dropping him. The reality is that the student published a tweet that "depicted a comic character that had been altered and had stereotyped Chinese features, with yellow skin tone and slit eyes". This understandably was perceived as racist by a Chine…

It's convenient to believe that your enemy is so fragile that they're threatened by a twitterer with a dozen followers. I don't see how that does one any good outside a feeling of smug superiority. China is building a frightening amount soft power through trade deals and building goodwill. That's what people should be talking about, not China supposedly censoring angry opinions that can be found anywhere else on the…

Google "glass heart"

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#332

Post by throw453212 » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 7:37 PM UTC

will4274 wrote: post #235

exo-pla-net wrote: post #14

This is an article spun to make controversy out of nothing. The narrative is that a student tweeted something critical about China, and the CCP pressured his advisor into dropping him. The reality is that the student published a tweet that "depicted a comic character that had been altered and had stereotyped Chinese features, with yellow skin tone and slit eyes". This understandably was perceived as racist by a Chine…

Until I see it, I'm not going to believe that cartoon is racist. I mean seriously, Asian people have skin that is somewhat more yellow and somewhat narrower eyes. With the way the media manipulates anything, the lack of a photo is a pretty strong sign that the cartoon ISN'T significantly racist (just as the lack of race in the title in a act of police brutality is a strong sign that the victim is white).

I have the opposite thought. The article was obviously sympathetic to the student, so not including the racist image is a pretty strong sign.

Even the student ended up saying if he had given it more thought, he would not have posted the racist image.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#333

Post by qwertox » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 7:58 PM UTC

> His girlfriend was shocked when she saw some of the tweets. Talking with him on the telephone, she begged him to stop. Not because she necessarily disagreed with anything. But because she was worried about retaliation by the Chinese government. «I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»

Shouldn't he have also taken into consideration that this "retaliation" could also be directed towards his girlfriend?

Generally, the article raises the feeling of "mistakes have been made". There you have a professor afraid of harming her career, which is understandable, and having the option to play a "is de-registered anyway"-card. Keeping him in the unofficial advisorship and tied to the university can be seen as a friendly, helpful gesture on the part of the university, surely also with the intention to be able to refer to him should he build a successful career. It was a weak point which he should have taken into consideration, yet it would have been difficult to anticipate that it would turn out this way.

Wasn't he planning to go back to Wuhan anyway? Why risk it?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#334

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 8:00 PM UTC

qwertox wrote: post #333

> His girlfriend was shocked when she saw some of the tweets. Talking with him on the telephone, she begged him to stop. Not because she necessarily disagreed with anything. But because she was worried about retaliation by the Chinese government. «I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.» Shouldn't he have also taken into consideration that this "retaliation" could also be directed…

[deleted]

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#335

Post by CinzanoBianco » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 8:05 PM UTC

krageon wrote: post #271

jeswin wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So should he just shut up, then? It's scary if most people feel that way. There was also no risk to his GF. At worst, the relationship ends - it's not like the CCP is going to go after her (she did ask him to stop).

> it's not like the CCP is going to go after her This is not a reasonable assumption and once it's throw out it becomes clear this boy was endangering others as well as himself by doing something ill-advised and unplanned.

“The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.”

― Albert Einstein

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#336

Post by newbamboo » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 8:25 PM UTC

HWR_14 wrote: post #302

newbamboo wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree with your disagreement. The Atlantic article is casting shade on free speech. One only needs to read the headline, which is rightly or wrongly what most eyeballs will ever see. If a headline is “iPhones have a lot of problems” and then body of the article explains that “despite that they are still pretty good” then it fair to characterize it as the parent poster did IMO. No person ever has made the claim tha…

1) Talking about costs isn't casting shade. And the article is talking about the costs (and why they are worth it). 2) It's not a hot-take that titles don't agree with their article's contents. The solution to that is to fix headlines, not to plug our ears and only read headlines and claim nuance is impossible. 3) Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline... for widely known example of (2…

Fair enough. I do see where you’re coming from, just thought you made the case a bit too strongly. I feel like given the current environment in which censorship is running rampant, in the opinion of many on both the left and the right, that to assert nobody is questioning the value of free speech seems at least a tad unperceptive if not willfully ignorant. Perhaps I mischaracterise your thinking, and if so I hope no offense is taken. I’ve seen what I perceive to be a cultural shift between the late 80s and today in popular attitudes toward free speech, at least in progressive circles. My perception may be wrong, I fully acknowledge.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#337

Post by amrcnimgrnt » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 8:41 PM UTC

jjoonathan wrote: post #239

amrcnimgrnt wrote: post #175

To be clear, what happened to this kid is horrible and just demonstrates that we have to get serious on this problem. However this comment annoyed me: "«I'm in Switzerland, not China,» Gerber replied. «I can say what I want here.»" You can tell this kid grew up in the la-la land that is the West, particularly Europe. I find this comment to be an infuriating mix anivete and patronizing. For the naïveté Switzerland is…

Wow. Patronizing: you know what's patronizing? The notion that this kid simply doesn't understand the realpolitik. Of course he does: it just punched him in the face. He's fighting it. I respect him for that. Infuriating: you know what's infuriating? The person who claims to share the values this guy is standing up for but can't stop trash-talking him. Naïveté: you know what's naive? Thinking that rolling over and ac…

I have no problem cheering on those who take on known risks. But a person who takes on risks they are ignorant off are not heroes. They're cannon fodder for internet chatterers who cheer them to their doom. They are to be pitied.

I'm under no illusions that something has to be done to contain the rising totalitarians around the world. But I won't send a delusional noob to fight it for me.

As to your comments about self-loathing. I love the West. I just don't think self-immolation through twitter is that effective. He's changed nothing for the better and lost everything.

But we agree on something. He just got punched in the face w/ realpolitik

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#338

Post by Igelau » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 8:41 PM UTC

jacksonkmarley wrote: post #79

Well, buried in the middle of this article is an important point: > In fact, as of the fall 2019 semester, Gerber had been officially enrolled only at the university in China, not at St. Gallen. So he was a Swiss person doing a PhD at a Chinese university. His relationship with the professor at the Swiss university was an unofficial one, so the word 'dismissal' here is pretty misleading. No information about what hap…

> So he was a Swiss person doing a PhD at a Chinese university

He'd been advised by Gallen to deregister with a plan for how and when to re-enroll. It's pretty obvious in retrospect that they did this so they could have a trapdoor under him just in case something went bad in China.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#339

Post by nickik » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

guerrilla wrote: post #55

nickik wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopeful they at least dont want make endless war in the middle east.

That would be very unnatural. States make war for their interests. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_realism

Fighting in the Middle East is literally the exact opposite of what Neorealists believe.

John Mearsheimer opposed to these idiotic middle east wars and has been for a long time.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#340

Post by sidlls » Sat, Aug 07, 2021, 9:16 PM UTC

edbob wrote: post #320

esquivalience wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually is. It's a fundamental human right under the European Convention on Human Rights (to which Switzerland is a party) , Art. 10: "ARTICLE 10 Freedom of expression 1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This Article shall not preve…

"Article 35. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, of association, of procession and of demonstration." "Article 36. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief..." "Article 37. The freedom of person of citizens of the People's Republic of China is inviolable..." "Article 49. Marriage, the family, and mother and child are protec…

Yes, article 51 that you quoted more or less makes any other article completely irrelevant. That's the whole point. In western countries there really isn't an equivalent to Article 51 in any meaningful sense. China's government is an oppressive dictatorship by design. It makes a big difference.