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With a nudge from AI, ketamine emerges as a potential rare disease treatment

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Re: With a nudge from AI, ketamine emerges as a potential rare disease treatment

#41

It feels like in the last few years I have been constantly hearing about new research showing “fun” drugs as cures to a wide array of medical conditions. There’s marijuana for chronic pain, mushrooms for depression, mdma for ptsd, and now ketamine. They are often talked about as if they have little or no harmful side effects. I’m glad we are moving away from the incredibly destructive drug policies that have been in…

The side effects are super well documentéd on drug-positive websites such as psychonaut wiki, erowid,... even r/drugs.

Just look for it

Re: With a nudge from AI, ketamine emerges as a potential rare disease treatment

#42

It feels like in the last few years I have been constantly hearing about new research showing “fun” drugs as cures to a wide array of medical conditions. There’s marijuana for chronic pain, mushrooms for depression, mdma for ptsd, and now ketamine. They are often talked about as if they have little or no harmful side effects. I’m glad we are moving away from the incredibly destructive drug policies that have been in…

> Are we going to see similar harms from these drugs a few years after they gain more popularity?

I think we’re already starting to see this on a smaller scale.

One of my friends is a therapist who does a lot of social work predominantly for low-income people coming from difficult situations. She encounters a lot of people who have become heavily dependent on marijuana under a mistaken impression that smoking multiple times every day is a good treatment for depression or anxiety. Many of them are under the impression than marijuana is a wonder drug that treats everything from psychiatric illnesses to cancer. Meanwhile they’re clearly too impaired and unmotivated to get their lives together due to being constantly high. She spends a lot of time convincing people to moderate their consumption or even abstain entirely. The results are great if she can convince them to stop, but that’s a difficult task.

More worrisome is the increasing number of parents she sees who are trying to medicate their juvenile children with marijuana. Some of the stories she tells about parents who are convinced they’re doing their kids a favor by giving them THC edibles before school (supposedly for anxiety) are downright tragic.

There is a growing mistrust of pharmaceutical companies and mainstream psychiatry that mirrors the rise of things like anti-vaxxers and belief in essential oils. Many companies are rushing to fill this demand for alternative medicine with products and services ranging from pushing heavy THC consumption to ketamine clinics that will give ketamine to anyone willing to pay a few hundred dollars per dose.

In the case of this article the discovery of ketamine’s actions is more likely to spur development of new molecules that can be used without the obvious side effects of ongoing ketamine treatment (which is not as harmless as it sounds when repeatedly dosed over a lifetime).

Re: With a nudge from AI, ketamine emerges as a potential rare disease treatment

#43
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis, psilocybin, and LSD have been used recreationally for decades with death rates approaching zero and there have been 0 cases of overdose. I was under the impression that these drugs were made illegal because their use promotes an anti capitalism mindset (see Timothy Leary being called the most dangerous man because of his research on LSD) and the medical industrial complex isnt able to extract as much money…

Oxycodone was pitched as non-addicting. Opioids generally were pitched as non-addicting because they were by prescription, under control of doctors. That protection scheme obviously failed miserably.

Oxycodone was created by a pharmaceutical company and marketed in a way that would earn them a profit.

Marijuana and psilocybin have been around for literal ages with widespread use. LSD and ketamine are synthesized, but we have decades of experience with them.

Re: With a nudge from AI, ketamine emerges as a potential rare disease treatment

#44

It feels like in the last few years I have been constantly hearing about new research showing “fun” drugs as cures to a wide array of medical conditions. There’s marijuana for chronic pain, mushrooms for depression, mdma for ptsd, and now ketamine. They are often talked about as if they have little or no harmful side effects. I’m glad we are moving away from the incredibly destructive drug policies that have been in…

>I’m glad we are moving away from the incredibly destructive drug policies that have been in place for so long The point of the polices was to counter the incredibly destructive result of the surge of cocaine, crack, heroin use in the mid 1970s and early to mid 1980s. And the deaths from the drug use and the gangs fighting over the spoils. It really was a war. Mexico didn't seem to make it, I think the drugs won. I k…

Ironically you are describing the consequences of the "war on drugs" which started in 1971. Many overdose deaths are directly related to the unknown quality of black market drugs. There would be no gangs "fighting over the spoils" if it were legal. You are conflating the consequences of prohibition with the consequences of drug use. That isn't to say all drugs are good, but as we learned in the 1920s prohibition is assuredly worse.

Re: With a nudge from AI, ketamine emerges as a potential rare disease treatment

#45
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to burst your bubble but U.S. drug policy is not as progressive as you might think. Cannabis is still illegal under federal law. And right now America is petitioning the WHO for a GLOBAL ban on KRATOM, a herb which has been used in Asia for hundreds of years with no recorded deaths. It has been in use in Europe and America for a couple of decades and still there are no deaths recorded from pure Kratom use. Krat…

I'm not familiar with that "awesome herb", so I wondered what other sources might have to say. While the numbers are small (unsurprisingly, if it's not nearly as widely known and used as some other substances), it may not be quite as innocuous as you seem to imply: > "A 2019 paper analyzing data from the National Poison Data System found that between 2011-2017 there were 11 deaths associated with kratom exposure. Nin…

This is the most reefer madness comment I have ever seen on Hacker News. Seven possible deaths with just Kratom and this justifies banning it?

How many deaths and ruined lives will those enforcing a Kratom ban be responsible for? Perhaps we should consult the history of bans of other drugs to get some idea.

Anyone claiming that their reason for adding yet another substance to The Forever War on Drugs is harm reduction should be laughed out of the room at this point. I reckon that, because the Covid vaccine has been responsible for at least ten blood clots we should also set up a global ban to ensure nobody ever gets to take it.

Re: With a nudge from AI, ketamine emerges as a potential rare disease treatment

#46

It feels like in the last few years I have been constantly hearing about new research showing “fun” drugs as cures to a wide array of medical conditions. There’s marijuana for chronic pain, mushrooms for depression, mdma for ptsd, and now ketamine. They are often talked about as if they have little or no harmful side effects. I’m glad we are moving away from the incredibly destructive drug policies that have been in…

> Are we going to see similar harms from these drugs a few years after they gain more popularity? I think we’re already starting to see this on a smaller scale. One of my friends is a therapist who does a lot of social work predominantly for low-income people coming from difficult situations. She encounters a lot of people who have become heavily dependent on marijuana under a mistaken impression that smoking multipl…

Did you ever compare the side effects of marijuana to the popular antidepressant, antianxiety and ADHD medications being given to children?

> There is a growing mistrust of pharmaceutical companies and mainstream psychiatry that mirrors the rise of things like anti-vaxxers

This statement seems to ignore the crisis brought by narcotic drugs. People should be skeptical of pharmaceutical companies. There is a long history of their drugs killing people. It's really not worth my time to post it all, but feel free to do a little research yourself.

Comparing them to antivaxxers is inflammatory and inaccurate.

Re: With a nudge from AI, ketamine emerges as a potential rare disease treatment

#47

It feels like in the last few years I have been constantly hearing about new research showing “fun” drugs as cures to a wide array of medical conditions. There’s marijuana for chronic pain, mushrooms for depression, mdma for ptsd, and now ketamine. They are often talked about as if they have little or no harmful side effects. I’m glad we are moving away from the incredibly destructive drug policies that have been in…

Sorry to burst your bubble but U.S. drug policy is not as progressive as you might think. Cannabis is still illegal under federal law. And right now America is petitioning the WHO for a GLOBAL ban on KRATOM, a herb which has been used in Asia for hundreds of years with no recorded deaths. It has been in use in Europe and America for a couple of decades and still there are no deaths recorded from pure Kratom use. Krat…

Please don’t glorify Kratom as some sort of miracle herb without downsides.

Kratom is an opioid, full stop. People are under the mistaken impression that it’s less addictive because it’s less potent on a per-gram basis, but addicts simply end up consuming more grams to get similar highs.

It’s not a “mood regulator” in any magical sense other than it’s an opioid and opioids temporarily put people in good moods.

There are many communities dedicated to quitting Kratom and handling Kratom withdrawal, which is the same as withdrawing from other opioids (For instance: https://www.reddit.com/r/quittingkratom/ ).

Whether or not you think Kratom should be legal, we shouldn’t be glorifying it as a harmless substance that somehow defies the realities of every other opioid.

Re: With a nudge from AI, ketamine emerges as a potential rare disease treatment

#48

It feels like in the last few years I have been constantly hearing about new research showing “fun” drugs as cures to a wide array of medical conditions. There’s marijuana for chronic pain, mushrooms for depression, mdma for ptsd, and now ketamine. They are often talked about as if they have little or no harmful side effects. I’m glad we are moving away from the incredibly destructive drug policies that have been in…

"They are often talked about as if they have little or no harmful side effect"

Unlike all those "unfun" drugs? I think side effects are part and parcel of virtually all drugs. Do we need a special all-caps disclaimer anytime a drug is mentioned to remind people that side effects exist? If we did, most of the biggest disclaimers would be reserved for fully-legal, commonly-prescribed drugs.

Re: With a nudge from AI, ketamine emerges as a potential rare disease treatment

#49

It feels like in the last few years I have been constantly hearing about new research showing “fun” drugs as cures to a wide array of medical conditions. There’s marijuana for chronic pain, mushrooms for depression, mdma for ptsd, and now ketamine. They are often talked about as if they have little or no harmful side effects. I’m glad we are moving away from the incredibly destructive drug policies that have been in…

> They are often talked about as if they have little or no harmful side effects.

Most drugs have side effects, including all the legal pharmaceuticals. E.g. normal antidepressants aren't without risk.

Anyways, that's why its important to study them - see where they lie on the risk-benefit trade-off curve.

> The opioid epidemic was largely caused by the idea of them being non addictive

I don't know which idiots thought these were non addictive. Like there was even the opium wars faught over this point in the 1800s. We've known of the danger since the 1700s.

Re: With a nudge from AI, ketamine emerges as a potential rare disease treatment

#50
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis, psilocybin, and LSD have been used recreationally for decades with death rates approaching zero and there have been 0 cases of overdose. I was under the impression that these drugs were made illegal because their use promotes an anti capitalism mindset (see Timothy Leary being called the most dangerous man because of his research on LSD) and the medical industrial complex isnt able to extract as much money…

Oxycodone was pitched as non-addicting. Opioids generally were pitched as non-addicting because they were by prescription, under control of doctors. That protection scheme obviously failed miserably.

because there was a profit motive to lie.
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