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CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

calyxos.org

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Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#401

Post by GekkePrutser »

strcat wrote: post #395
commoner wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I really appreciate your work on GrapheneOS (and I will be checking out the sandboxed Google Play Services feature), I don't think it's very good form to heavily promote your OS in a discussion about a different OS, especially in such an adversarial way. There's room in the FOSS space for both GrapheneOS and CalyxOS.

Please look at the comments being replied to from that user in this thread. They're spreading misinformation about GrapheneOS in order to promote CalyxOS. This isn't something isolated but rather than community is highly hostile towards our project and has been heavily involved in harassment of our developers, raids on our community and coordinated spreading of misinformation. Every time GrapheneOS or CalyxOS is ment…

Sorry if I misunderstood some of the differences, but I was trying to simplify it and trying to be helpful by explaining what I read about both.

I'm not trying to promote either, and I don't use either as I don't have any pixel phones. However I thought of buying one and as such I looked into the differences.

I didn't realise you now had sandboxed play services, but to be honest I would trust MicroG a lot more than Google, even if it's sandboxed :) The only way I'd want to interact with Firebase is for push notifications, I prefer MicroG's way of handling location by the way, with its location plugins pointing to really open sources. Play Services are still closed-source google components that I don't want on my phone.

I was not saying that you don't care about privacy. I just wanted to express that I generally see GrapheneOS pick the security side over privacy if there is a choice to be made between both (and only then). And with privacy I mainly mean big data tracking from the likes of Google.

I didn't mean to attack you at all. I have no side in this conflict and I'm sorry you feel that way. See also how I said in my original post that GrapheneOS has security as Priority #1. How is that a bad thing??

If you look at my other posts you will see I praised you for promoting security features that were incorporated into AOSP after you had initially developed them. I was just trying to present the situation as I understood it. I didn't realise it was so adversarial.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#402

Post by GekkePrutser »

strcat wrote: post #323
_abox wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calyx has more focus on functionality and privacy rather than security. On Graphene, security is always priority #1. For example: Calyx provides MicroG. This means you can talk to Google Play services, though in a better, more privacy-conscious way. MicroG is an open implentation of Google Play Services. However, MicroG requires signature spoofing: You need to install a fake Google certificate so that it can trick of…

> Calyx has more focus on functionality and privacy rather than security. That's not true. GrapheneOS is heavily focused on privacy and offers much better privacy than CalyxOS. See https://grapheneos.org/features for the privacy and security features offered beyond AOSP. Unlike CalyxOS, we aren't listing AOSP features as our own. CalyxOS has a leaky firewall which apps can bypass and a leaky VPN tethering implementat…

Like I said in my post below I didn't mean to attack you. I don't even use either Calyx nor GrapheneOS. > That's not true. GrapheneOS is heavily focused on privacy and offers much better privacy than CalyxOS. See https://grapheneos.org/features for the privacy and security features offered beyond AOSP. Unlike CalyxOS, we aren't listing AOSP features as our own.

I simply wanted to explain that you will always pick the security side if a balance has to be made between security and privacy. I don't mean this as a bad thing. It's a good point and a good differentiator between both IMO.

> GrapheneOS has https://grapheneos.org/usage#sandboxed-play-services which is able to provide much better app compatibility, far more functionality and without the privacy/security sacrifices of microG. microG lacks the same security checks and key pinning of Play. It doesn't avoid trusting Play because the apps using Play are using the Play client libraries. microG is an additional trusted party.

I don't agree with this. I would not want any google play stuff on my phone, sandboxed or not.

> Those apps work fine on GrapheneOS. CalyxOS isn't more private and more secure than AOSP. CalyxOS includes a lot more proprietary services (Google, WhatsApp, etc.) than AOSP. For the most part, they're making changes which quite easily hurt privacy and security.

Does Calyx really include WhatsApp out of the box? That would indeed be a very negative point for me. As I mentioned I haven't used either.

> This is a highly inaccurate portrayal of what GrapheneOS provides and the decision making process. GrapheneOS values privacy and usability very highly. It balances those with security.

As far as I understand your website you do always pick security if a tradeoff has to be made. I don't think this is a bad thing. I think it's a good option. It's just not the choice I would make but it's nevertheless a good stance for those who care about security the most.

Anyway like I said in my other post I'm sorry you view my post as an attack. If you look at my other posts you will see I praised you for promoting security features that were incorporated into AOSP after you had initially developed them.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#403

Post by GekkePrutser »

strcat wrote: post #318
Koshkin wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't privacy and security go hand in hand?

Yes, they do, and GrapheneOS is heavily focused on both. The purpose of the project and what it provides is being heavily misrepresented by the comment above. GrapheneOS treats bypasses of privacy features as security vulnerabilities. It offers substantial privacy advantages of CalyxOS and doesn't come with the privacy drawbacks it introduces. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28095033 (above) for a more in-de…

I actually praised you here for pioneering important security features into AOSP :) Please don't view my comments as attacks or Calyx fanboi-ism. I'm not using either and I think you're doing great work. I just wanted to highlight the difference in approach as I saw it as a potential user when I was considering buying a pixel phone.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#404

Post by 0xdeadb00f »

kiawe_fire wrote: post #4

Anybody have experience using something like this (or others like GrapheneOS) as a daily driver? I’m interested in moving away from Apple and big tech in general, but I don’t know how practical that is yet.

I use GrapheneOS as my daily (no google apps).

Literally 0 issues. Previously LineageOS was my preference, but Graphene is 1. Closer to stock 2. Actually innovates security-wise.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#405

Post by 0xdeadb00f »

atatatat wrote: post #70
terhechte wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm using GrapheneOS on a second device for various reasons. The biggest issue for me is that not all apps work / run. However, I have limited app requirements, so that is fine. If you want to run all social networks, Uber, Lyft, and so on, there might be the one or other that doesn't work (I didn't try them all). However, you can always use the mobile web offering I guess. In terms of classical smartphone features,…

What apps haven't worked for you on GrapheneOS, from Aurora Store?

Not the person you asked, but my banking app works but occasionally will crash when I go to certain parts of the app. I'm not sure why.

Other than that Discord, MS Teams, and ProtonMail all work fine with the exception of push notifications (I disable those anyways, so this isn't a concern of mine).

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#406

Post by temptemptemp111 »

Koshkin wrote: post #93
_abox wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah GrapheneOS is security over privacy, Calyx is privacy over security (and has a bit more mainstream appeal with MicroG, supporting push messaging and location services etc). GrapheneOS has also pioneered a lot of security measures, a lot of which have been added to Android proper (if you see their feature log, a lot of it says "removed because it was introduced in Android"). I wonder if that wouldn't have been th…

Don't privacy and security go hand in hand?

Very. People can't think.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#407

Post by uhtred »

strcat wrote: post #333
uhtred wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been using /e/os [1] for a while and I am very happy with it. It has microG integrated so any apps that rely on google play services should still work. [1] https://e.foundation/

microG only provides a tiny subset of the Play services functionality. Only certain apps with work with it, not every app. It doesn't implement most.

I hardly use any apps that are not foss, really I just need slack and whatsapp, and they work well (push notifications etc) so microG works well for me (I don't think these 2 apps would work fully without microG but never tested that). Banking apps I don't use, and they probably wouldn't work, but hey, websites are still a thing.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#409

Post by themsay »

ignoramous wrote: post #355
privacyking wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your trackercontrol alternative called? What makes it better or worse?

RethinkDNS + Firewall: https://github.com/celzero/rethink-app TrackerControl has a tad better UX; is built on top of the super-stable NetGuard and hence inherits its flaws and merits. For instance, it does not support DoH/DoT/DNSCrypt. It also leaks DNS connections over TCP (this happens when a DNS question or answer payload is too big to fit in a single UDP packet). In fact, all userspace DNS clients on Android I ha…

Super solid firewall, since I found it never look back.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#410

Post by itomato »

dcow wrote: post #69

If you're unfamiliar with the context: Calyx Institute is a 501(c)(3) with a digital privacy and security mission. For a while they've offered, for a few hundred dollars a year donation, unmetered access to sprint's network. I don't know the details but I think they have retained access to the network through the merger due to some non-profit provision (something like the sprint merger was allowed with stipulation th…

I’m a former subscriber, not renewing because T-Mobile is supposedly shutting down Sprint’s old LTE equipment: https://www.lightreading.com/5g/t-mobile-to-shutter-sprints-...

If this is true, I’m not surprised there’s a pivot to an unlocked phone without a bundled subscription with Mobile Citizen/Calyx.

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