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Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

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Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#61

Post by option »

ramraj07 wrote: post #15

The professor should be fired and the university punished (doubtful), but the student was also an idiot to do what he did. It’s not like he was some random guy who just tweeted at China, he lived in wuhan for years and has actual family there now, being critical of a totalitarian government in that scenario is the height of monumental stupidity. It’s ironic that the article paints him as methodological and thoughtful…

sometimes being critical of totalitarian government is a sign of bravery. Especially for those with the skin in the game.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#62

Post by [deleted] »

guerrilla wrote: post #49
divbzero wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I find this only slightly less disturbing than China’s behavior. Stopping a visitor at the border for social posts of acquaintances is almost as bad as writing nasty emails threatening to do so. (Edit: Ismail was ultimately granted entry [1] but still shameful incident and disturbing that it could happen at all.) [1]: https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2019/9/3/harvard-student-...

> Stopping a visitor at the border for social posts of acquaintances is almost as bad as writing nasty emails threatening to do so. Why is it not the same or worse? Now I suffer consequences for the totally legal actions of somone I know?

[deleted]

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#63

Post by josephtill »

unabirra wrote: post #51
ipnon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But nominally, you can be a political fool in Switzerland without professional consequence.[a] It seems he is being forced to play by the social rules of China in Switzerland. It's fair to say his tweets could jeopardize his ability to return to China and secure a professorship or research position, but to suffer professional consequences in Switzerland, in the heart of Europe, for Chinese political incorrectness is…

Only if the post praises BLM and criticizes MAGA... Lots of people have lost their jobs (and even dropped from public funded colleges) because of this. Not sure if you are really not aware of this, or if your comment is not in good faith.

> Only if the post praises BLM and criticizes MAGA... Lots of people have lost their jobs (and even dropped from public funded colleges) because of this.

I've never heard of such a thing. Could you give a specific example of these "lots of people"?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#64

Post by exo-pla-net »

javert wrote: post #31
ipnon wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lest ye incur the wrath of dang, HN newbies, accusing others of astroturfing or hidden agendas is against the guidelines.

> Lest ye incur the wrath of dang, HN newbies, accusing others of astroturfing or hidden agendas is against the guidelines. For people who are having trouble parsing that: I am not an HN noob and I did not accuse anyone of astroturfing. The opposite, on both counts.

I'm afraid I may have dragged you down with me. Johnny thought he saw CCP behind the tree, so the surrounding transnational region needs to be firebombed as a precautionary measure. One has to go along with it, or one is immediately court marshaled as a secret CCP sympathizer.

Anyway, now that we're at the bottom of the comment thread and just talking to each other, thanks for vouching for me. You probably saved me from being hammered even deeper into the downvote pit.

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#65

Post by [deleted] »

rgoulter wrote: post #54
_Microft wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar with the „paradox of tolerance“ already? You can read about it here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance First paragraph copied for your convenience: „The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly paradoxical idea that in order to ma…

I think that summary misses out how much Popper argues should be tolerated. e.g. in the quote in the article, Popper writes: > In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise.

[deleted]

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#66

Post by thelopa »

cblconfederate wrote: post #59
traveler01 wrote: post #52

The content of this article clearly shows how hurt the concept of free speach is nowadays. You tweet some stuff and you're life is destroyed. Simple. No warning or whatsoever, you just destroy your life because you angered China.

Or you angered america, or the US political parties Or women or trans people or nonbinary people. It's like , if you don't draw a hard line, the virus keeps expanding

Look, I get it. Cancel culture isn’t healthy for our society, but can we be realistic about our examples? JKR is doing just fine after posting her transphobic screed last year. The various lawmakers across the US that sponsored anti-trans legislation this year haven’t been forcibly removed from office. Leading up to the presidential debates last year, speakers at the RNC made explicitly transphobic comments. Trump himself has started to wade into the fray. None of these people have lost their jobs, livelihoods, or platforms as a result. Yeah, some people decided they didn’t want to read JKR’s books any more, but when her essay is being read in debates in both UK parliament and US congress I wouldn’t exactly say she lost her platform. I’m not saying backlash to anti-trans sentiment doesn’t exist, but can we at least acknowledge that the backlash isn’t nearly as severe as you’re implying?

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#67

Post by CraigJPerry »

unabirra wrote: post #51
ipnon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But nominally, you can be a political fool in Switzerland without professional consequence.[a] It seems he is being forced to play by the social rules of China in Switzerland. It's fair to say his tweets could jeopardize his ability to return to China and secure a professorship or research position, but to suffer professional consequences in Switzerland, in the heart of Europe, for Chinese political incorrectness is…

Only if the post praises BLM and criticizes MAGA... Lots of people have lost their jobs (and even dropped from public funded colleges) because of this. Not sure if you are really not aware of this, or if your comment is not in good faith.

Is that true?

I had a quick search and i only found one case - a Michael J Dale covered in various outlets alleging dismissal for MAGA support back in 2018. However, i cant find that the case actually went to court. It appears Michael has decided against testing his claim in court?

I can find some cases for the opposite - dismissal for criticising president Trimp:

Jeff Klinzman had his day in court and was awarded a payout.

Rob Rogers didn’t go through courts but former employer on record in the Guardian newspaper confirming reason for his dismissal was his criticism of trump.

Craig Silverman again didn’t go via courts but his previous employer confirmed the reason for his shows termination.

Allegations that don’t appear to have gone to court yet:

Dr. Bandy Lee (2020) Gabriel Noronha (2020)

Re: Swiss Ph.D student’s dismissal spotlights China’s influence

#68

Post by [deleted] »

casualracism wrote: post #35
ipnon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But nominally, you can be a political fool in Switzerland without professional consequence.[a] It seems he is being forced to play by the social rules of China in Switzerland. It's fair to say his tweets could jeopardize his ability to return to China and secure a professorship or research position, but to suffer professional consequences in Switzerland, in the heart of Europe, for Chinese political incorrectness is…

As I said in another comment, in the U.S., if you’re an African American studies PhD student and you post a racist cartoon depicting black stereotypes, it’s not hard to imagine losing your doctorate candidacy.

[deleted]
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