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Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

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Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#131

Post by toomuchtodo »

trothamel wrote: post #128
toomuchtodo wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the breaks annoying enough you'd go back to a gas car if you had to pay the fully loaded carbon costs per gallon of fuel? At ~$100/metric ton of CO2, that's about 90 cents of carbon tax alone per gallon of fuel.

How do you get $100 per ton? The UN is selling carbon offsets for a couple dollars a ton. https://offset.climateneutralnow.org/AllProjects

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S240584401... (Control-F “ Table 2. Scenarios for the optimal carbon tax.”)

Optimal tax is closer to $126/ton, so my “shooting from the hip” was a bit low.

Carbon credits in Europe are trading for 50EUR/ton ($58 USD) currently.

(nobody is currently paying anywhere near the true cost per ton of emitted carbon)

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#132

Post by mwint »

geoduck14 wrote: post #109
dylan604 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. EVs are perfect for day-to-day commutes and what not where it's drive a distance, let it sit for several hours (while at work or at home at night), lather-rinse-repeat. Long distance continuous driving would be brutal with an hour pitstop every couple of hours.

This is the insight that I need. I'm all about EVs, but my fam and I will go on at least 1 500 road trip each year, and we don't stop for sleep (unless we have to).

Assuming you're saying "one 500-mile road trip" per year, I don't think you should let that stop you. That's one or two 10-80% charging stops max for any Tesla.

I'd play with https://abetterrouteplanner.com and test your potential road trips with the type of car you're interested in. It'll plan out where you'd need to stop, for how long, etc. Pretty cool way to alleviate (or confirm) your fears.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#133

Post by linsomniac »

dylan604 wrote: post #106
alvah wrote: post #105

"In this context, there’s another number there that I think is really interesting: The “km/c-h”, how far you can get on an hour’s charge. For this particular car on this selection of chargers, it was over 200km (124 miles) per charge-hour. I think that’s enough? Maybe in the lower regions of enough, but there." So at 110km/h, less than 2 hours of driving for every hour spent charging? In what world is that close to "…

Exactly right. EVs are perfect for day-to-day commutes and what not where it's drive a distance, let it sit for several hours (while at work or at home at night), lather-rinse-repeat. Long distance continuous driving would be brutal with an hour pitstop every couple of hours.

It really depends... The EV travel is a different cadence, for sure. Whether that's a bad thing or not will depend on the individual.

The 30-40 minute stops every couple hours that I have experienced in my older Tesla (60kwh, later upgraded to 75kwh), is nice to nap, visit attractions, eat and use restrooms, walk the dog... It definitely makes for a different trip than screeching to a stop at the pump, running in to pee while the pump is running, and then lighting the tires up on the way out of the station. I've done that plenty of trips in the past. It's kind of brutal TBH.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#134

Post by hamandcheese »

carcostthrow wrote: post #85

>And everyone should stop driving fossil vehicles starting now. [...] There’s no excuse not to. Isn't there? Right now for me to own a Ford Mach E, a Tesla Model 3 or a RAV4 Prime is $3400 to $3700 per year for comprehensive insurance, $1400 a year for liability only. My SUV right now costs $1100 a year to insure comprehensive, but even a 2021 Acura NSX or Jaguar F-Pace is only $1400 for the same level of insurance t…

Your insurance sounds… exceptionally high. My Model 3 is about $1500/year for comprehensive coverage.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#135

Post by thangalin »

carcostthrow wrote: post #85

>And everyone should stop driving fossil vehicles starting now. [...] There’s no excuse not to. Isn't there? Right now for me to own a Ford Mach E, a Tesla Model 3 or a RAV4 Prime is $3400 to $3700 per year for comprehensive insurance, $1400 a year for liability only. My SUV right now costs $1100 a year to insure comprehensive, but even a 2021 Acura NSX or Jaguar F-Pace is only $1400 for the same level of insurance t…

My ROI write up on RAV4 vs. KONA EV, but general enough for other vehicle comparisons:

https://dave.autonoma.ca/blog/2019/08/06/typesetting-markdow...

> assuming main panel doesn't need upgrading and only installing a 240V circuit.

A Load Miser can split the dryer circuit; charging happens overnight, so no usage conflicts. It was about $1,500 USD for my house to run a line from the attic. YMMV, but probably less expensive.

> You leave an extension cord more then once out overnight, it will get stolen

Vancouver is experimenting with curbside chargers.

https://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/curbside-electri...

My ROI is now 7 years. The feeling of being off fossil fuels is priceless. (British Columbia is about 80% renewable.)

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#136

Post by seattle_spring »

version_five wrote: post #78
emilecantin wrote: post #14

I did a similar roadtrip back in 2015 (!) in my ex-boss's Tesla Model S: we traveled from Montréal to Atlanta for a weekend conference (JSConf, IIRC). We were driving continuously, switching drivers every time we hit a charger (we were 4 in the car). I think it took us about 24h to do the trip. My main takeaway from the experience is that charging wasn't actually "painful" at all. On the contrary, it was a welcome br…

I find this kind of "it's great to have a break" justification tiring. Glad that you found something to do while your car is charging, but pretending it's not a limitation feels like just glossing over something that does make it less flexible, whether that was a problem for you or not.

Agreed. It reminds me of people who arrogantly proclaim "it's the journey not the destination" when excusing why they don't let people who want to drive faster pass on 2 lane roads.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#137

Post by linsomniac »

version_five wrote: post #78
emilecantin wrote: post #14

I did a similar roadtrip back in 2015 (!) in my ex-boss's Tesla Model S: we traveled from Montréal to Atlanta for a weekend conference (JSConf, IIRC). We were driving continuously, switching drivers every time we hit a charger (we were 4 in the car). I think it took us about 24h to do the trip. My main takeaway from the experience is that charging wasn't actually "painful" at all. On the contrary, it was a welcome br…

I find this kind of "it's great to have a break" justification tiring. Glad that you found something to do while your car is charging, but pretending it's not a limitation feels like just glossing over something that does make it less flexible, whether that was a problem for you or not.

It's also tiring on the other side hearing how bad a 30-40 minute charger stop is. C'est la vie.

However... Add up all the time a gas car spends at the pump, that an EV does not (charging at home), and I'd guess most people will spend less time waiting for the EV than for gas.

And the charging time is coming down. My older Tesla is limited to 100kwh charging, the modern ones can use chargers in the range of 250kwh.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#138

Post by fy20 »

derefr wrote: post #86
908B64B197 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am sure that we will see strong opinions come from both the tesla and non-tesla EV camps in discussing this post, so hopefully my dual perspective will be of some value. If it doesn't plug into a supercharger it's pretty much defective on arrival. https://youtu.be/hA_B7qPyUDA?t=1136

Is anyone working on an active adapter to make a Supercharger think the device on the other end is a Tesla vehicle, so it'll put out a charge? I have no idea how Superchargers work, but I assume there's some sort of active electronic handshake going on over some control pins to authorize power delivery — perhaps even something cryptographic, e.g. the "pump" and the car both having Tesla-signed TLS certificates and pe…

Tesla are supposedly opening up their network soon, but that's not really the issue. Cars have a limit on how fast they can charge, and for a lot of more economic cars that's often quite slow.

The 2022 Nissan LEAF 40kW (149 mile) model can only charge at 50kW, the 60kW (226 mile) model pushes that to 100kW. The marketing says that's 45 minutes to 80% capacity. The 2022 Chevy Bolt is similar. If you are just commuting to and from work, then these cars are fine, but for a long trip you definately want an EV that can charge faster.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#139

Post by linsomniac »

mikewarot wrote: post #88

I drove 2000 km in a single day, on a number of occasions, when I was younger. I don't see how anyone could do it in less than 3 days with this many charge stops. I had no idea the range of electric cars was so short. I expected that they'd do better at cruising speed on the highways, because the mpg in my car goes up as I get up to 70 MPH. Apparently a Tesla Model 3 is only good for 289 miles at that speed before gi…

Electric cars tend to be the opposite as far as highway vs city MPGs. Range at 80MPH is far worse than at lower speeds because of air resistance. On the other end of the spectrum, around town they do better because of regeneration capturing a lot of the stop and go that kills gas car range.

Re: Driving 1725km in an electric car in 2 days

#140

Post by clouddrover »

908B64B197 wrote: post #74
gorkish wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid even less for my Bolt and while I think it's a wing dang doodle of a little car, I am not stupid enough to try to take it on a road trip. If I had to move the car any significant distance, I would not even attempt to drive it; I would ship or tow it. I "fast charged" the car exactly once, to test that it worked and familiarize myself with the process. $15 and 90 minutes later, I lost interest in ever doing it…

> I am sure that we will see strong opinions come from both the tesla and non-tesla EV camps in discussing this post, so hopefully my dual perspective will be of some value. If it doesn't plug into a supercharger it's pretty much defective on arrival. https://youtu.be/hA_B7qPyUDA?t=1136

> If it doesn't plug into a supercharger it's pretty much defective on arrival.

Is it? Then why is it that these cars charge faster than a Tesla Model 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gxcukAhIAU

And why is it that Teslas charge faster on CCS chargers than on Tesla chargers:

https://insideevs.com/news/507489/tesla-model3-charging-fast...

And why is it that the fastest EV cannonball run was done with a CCS car:

https://insideevs.com/news/464763/porsche-taycan-beats-elect...

What would be best is if Tesla just went ahead and put a CCS inlet on their North American cars, like Tesla already does in Europe. The European Teslas are better cars purely because they support the open charging standard and can plug into more chargers with no need for an adapter.

Tesla's proprietary plug is a dead end. CCS Teslas in North America would gain access to an additional 4,566 charging locations with no need for an adapter:

https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html

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