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CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

calyxos.org

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Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#301

Post by 10GBps »

entropy1111 wrote: post #295
tholdem wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OS in this case has nothing to do with not being able to be ported to other phones. Google is one of the few who will pay extra to Qualcomm for the ability for users to flash their own signing keys. Lineage does not support one of the most important security feature of any modern smartphone, lockable bootloader and verified boot. Lineage might be more privacy respecting than Googles Android, but far behind regard…

There's no point in using LineageOS after they dropped PrivacyGuard instead of expanding it. You start going down this road and suddenly you'll have a phone that doesn't pass SafetyNet anymore. You have to use 3rd-party applications and probably a ROM made by a random internet user not affiliated with LineageOS because they drop support for devices all the time. The phone manufacturers bribe ROM developers to do that…

I had not noticed that Lineage dropped PrivacyGuard. Damn, there really is no choice these days.

Lineage is also so frigging annoying how they just drop old phones. They won't even provide the last good build or previous builds. Really bad thinking over there in general I guess.

:(

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#302

Post by kelnos »

prox wrote: post #168
hadrien01 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For you first two questions: Spotify will work with Bluetooth, and WhatsApp will have eventual notifications (real-time if the app was recently opened, up to seven hours later otherwise, at least on my device)

If you degoogle yourself but then hook into FB whatsapp, isn’t that just defeating a bit of the point?

Sure, "a bit", but I don't think a phone that is entirely broken except for a few open source apps that don't do useful day-to-day things (like order me a Lyft, let me do my banking, pay for stuff at a cash register, navigation, etc.) is all that useful.

My ideal would be to have a base OS and core standard library that I can trust, and then I get to choose what apps I run on top of that. Sometimes I will choose to install an app that doesn't have a great privacy track record, but I will rely on apps like TrackerControl, Blokada, and Bouncer to mitigate my exposure somewhat. It won't be perfect, but we don't live in a perfect world where there are feature-identical, privacy-respecting clones of the mainstream apps. Until that time, I can decide what are acceptable risks to my privacy.

Unfortunately, I don't have that choice right now: either I live with the privacy minefield that is Android (as I do, and try to mitigate privacy leaks as well as possible), or the nanny state that is iOS (which I -- for now -- consider the greater evil).

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#303

Post by zozbot234 »

entropy1111 wrote: post #295
tholdem wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OS in this case has nothing to do with not being able to be ported to other phones. Google is one of the few who will pay extra to Qualcomm for the ability for users to flash their own signing keys. Lineage does not support one of the most important security feature of any modern smartphone, lockable bootloader and verified boot. Lineage might be more privacy respecting than Googles Android, but far behind regard…

There's no point in using LineageOS after they dropped PrivacyGuard instead of expanding it. You start going down this road and suddenly you'll have a phone that doesn't pass SafetyNet anymore. You have to use 3rd-party applications and probably a ROM made by a random internet user not affiliated with LineageOS because they drop support for devices all the time. The phone manufacturers bribe ROM developers to do that…

I don't think anyone is especially happy about the LineageOS shortcomings you point out, but that's why people are working on supporting the mainstream Linux stack on existing hardware.

The LineageOS folks have a very difficult job to do, they must keep up with developments in AOSP while supporting dozens of existing hardware models, each with its own "exciting" quirks. Is it really any wonder that some hardware gets dropped from official support? Usually that just means bugs have turned up which would make LineageOS not fully usable on the hardware, and they don't have the volunteer manpower to address them.

Complaining about SafetyNet and microG is even less understandable, as these will always amount to unsupported hacks and we don't really need them for a usable device. Just get your apps from F-Droid, and you won't have to care about either.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#304

Post by flir »

NullPrefix wrote: post #276
yusi-san wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can try lineage with MicroG[0][1], it replaces Google services. If you want stores there is the F-Droid store for FOSS app or Aurora Store if you want casual apps. YouTube can be replaced by NewPipe and these days I'm trying Organic Maps (a layer for OSM with nav and offline maps) to replace Google Maps. [0] : https://microg.org/ [1] : https://lineage.microg.org/

Youtube app can be replaced with Firefox

Vance gives you an audio-only option, which is nice.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#305

Post by zozbot234 »

kelnos wrote: post #299
brundolf wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can other Android flavours like GrapheneOS or LineageOS do this? There's a separate question you're missing: what your Google Services situation is Distros like Lineage come without Google Services; if you want them, you install them yourself "gapps" is the official one. It's straight Google everything. Lineage OS + gapps will give you a very clean and nice Android experience if you don't care about Google collecti…

Thanks for the frank details about the downsides. If I can't use my banking apps, Lyft, Google Pay, Photos, Maps, etc. with a particular mobile OS (with all features working), then it's unfortunately not for me. It seems like most of the Android alternatives throw the baby out with the bathwater. I get that making a trusted OS based on Android is hard, especially with Google having moved so much core functionality in…

> If I can't use my banking apps, Lyft, Google Pay, Photos, Maps, etc. with a particular mobile OS (with all features working), then it's unfortunately not for me.

These are proprietary apps, so it's a bit unrealistic to expect that they would support a free OS.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#306

Post by zozbot234 »

10GBps wrote: post #301
entropy1111 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no point in using LineageOS after they dropped PrivacyGuard instead of expanding it. You start going down this road and suddenly you'll have a phone that doesn't pass SafetyNet anymore. You have to use 3rd-party applications and probably a ROM made by a random internet user not affiliated with LineageOS because they drop support for devices all the time. The phone manufacturers bribe ROM developers to do that…

I had not noticed that Lineage dropped PrivacyGuard. Damn, there really is no choice these days. Lineage is also so frigging annoying how they just drop old phones. They won't even provide the last good build or previous builds. Really bad thinking over there in general I guess. :(

They do provide source for all devices, which you can just compile yourself. PrivacyGuard was dropped in order to provide compatibility with a loosely-equivalent solution that's included in AOSP, hence in most custom ROMs. Unfortunately, this also means that the supported feature set has regressed, and getting back to parity will take some effort.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#307

Post by commoner »

kelnos wrote: post #299
brundolf wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can other Android flavours like GrapheneOS or LineageOS do this? There's a separate question you're missing: what your Google Services situation is Distros like Lineage come without Google Services; if you want them, you install them yourself "gapps" is the official one. It's straight Google everything. Lineage OS + gapps will give you a very clean and nice Android experience if you don't care about Google collecti…

Thanks for the frank details about the downsides. If I can't use my banking apps, Lyft, Google Pay, Photos, Maps, etc. with a particular mobile OS (with all features working), then it's unfortunately not for me. It seems like most of the Android alternatives throw the baby out with the bathwater. I get that making a trusted OS based on Android is hard, especially with Google having moved so much core functionality in…

GP seems to be describing a flavor of Android that does not have microG or Google Play Services.

CalyxOS has microG, and I have no problems getting timely notifications on Signal or Slack, nor do I have any issues using Lyft, Google Maps, Google Photos, or any of my banking apps on CalyxOS (or LineageOS for microG). The only exception on your list is Google Pay, which I don't use because it is extremely privacy-invasive (gives Google all of your transaction data). In my opinion, CalyxOS is a very practical OS that balances convenience with privacy.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#308

Post by commoner »

flir wrote: post #304
NullPrefix wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube app can be replaced with Firefox

Vance gives you an audio-only option, which is nice.

NewPipe also has an audio-only option. Unlike YouTube Vanced (a mod of the original YouTube app), NewPipe is open source and supports video downloading. I think the main advantages of Vanced over NewPipe are the SponsorBlock integration and the ability to log in to a Google account (if that's what you're looking for).

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#309

Post by commoner »

_rdvw wrote: post #256
summm wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would having root itself rule out secure boot? It's just that they refuse to offer root themselves, and only as a result of that refusal one has to use system modifications to gain root. In a sense this is the opposite of your claim: they do explicitly not cater to root users.

Verified boot is only enforcing on -user builds. Lineage ships -userdebug builds. Furthermore Lineage's official root addon writes to /system. You can't have any additional changes to system or else verified boot won't boot. You can't have it both ways as it stands. That isn't to say they are incompatible, you can compile-in root support before the system hashes are generated and then you can have a locked bootloader…

> Furthermore Lineage's official root addon writes to /system.

LineageOS no longer offers an official root add-on as of December 2019.

https://www.xda-developers.com/lineageos-dropping-superuser-...

The most common rooting solution is Magisk, which is systemless.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#310

Post by commoner »

_rdvw wrote: post #291
zozbot234 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you cannot make any additional changes to /system with that root power afterwards. Not a showstopper, as modern root solutions like Magisk support "systemless" root, via file system overlays.

I am not sure how systemless root interacts with verified boot. I've never tried it myself.

Installing Magisk requires you to patch the bootloader or recovery image, which would break verified boot:

https://topjohnwu.github.io/Magisk/install.html

The only way to preserve verified boot with Magisk is for the bootloader or recovery image to have Magisk compatibility built-in prior to signing. I don't think any flavor of Android that supports verified boot is currently doing this.

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