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Dating in Delhi when you're poor

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Re: Dating in Delhi when you're poor

#141

Post by babesh »

pm90 wrote: post #89
jimbob45 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about building more housing. There is enough housing to house everyone in the US and then some. Homelessness is not just about finding/funding a home. You need food and transportation for a job. If the solution were as simple as throwing money at the homeless, California would have long ago solved their homelessness issue.

> It’s not about building more housing. It actually is. From: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/06/08/1003982733/squ... > By the 1980s, homelessness emerged as a chronic issue. There were many factors, including the federal government deciding to slash the budget for affordable housing. By then the California state government had significantly cut taxes and gutted social programs, including for state-funded men…

In California, it initially was because Reagan closed mental institutions. We had the housing (the mental institutions). Also, housing back then was affordable. You can’t chalk it down to housing till close to the 2000s.

Now you have this toxic brew of people with mental issues, drug addicts, people with family issues, and economic issues all feeding into each other.

Housing is then only a start. Also, any city that gives homeless more services than other areas just attracts more homeless.

It is monstrously expensive. Look at what SF is spending and watch what happens when the COVID-19 funds and state IPO windfall run dry.

Both the left and the right are at fault. Some of these people need to be institutionalized. Cities need to be cleaned up. Housing should be provided. Shipping homeless to other cities is not cool.

No city is probably willing to pay what it truly costs. It is probably roughly how much we pay for the criminal justice system.

https://nicic.gov/assign-library-item-package-accordion/stat...

$146K per person for the criminal justice system and then multiply it by 2 or 3 for social services, mental health services, drug treatment, etc…

Roughly 250 billion a year. You need to make the underlying institutions more efficient but institutional capture has already occurred. In other words, in a few years it is more likely to be 500 billion a year and the problem would be just as bad.

Of course if you wanted to turn around the criminal justice system as well, then you immediately jump into the trillions.

Re: Dating in Delhi when you're poor

#142

Post by hellbannedguy »

bakuninsbart wrote: post #94
jimbob45 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not about building more housing. There is enough housing to house everyone in the US and then some. Homelessness is not just about finding/funding a home. You need food and transportation for a job. If the solution were as simple as throwing money at the homeless, California would have long ago solved their homelessness issue.

My experiences with homeless people in California are very limited to my trip there 10 years ago. I did have a really good conversation with someone giving me some tips about SF for a dollar, and I was robbed by someone else while walking home late at night. Neither of those guys seemed mentally ill, but if my own country is anything to go by, a lot of these people have serious mental issues to deal with, and sitting…

The ones who can't use a toilet are a handful, and will never get off the streets.

Most homeless I have known whom are homeless just want a piece of land, with a outhouse, and maybe some fire pits so they can cook.

They want a piece of land where cops don't ticket, or get harassed.

Homelessness is just going to get worse. It's time to open up available federal, state, and local land, to free camping.

I've given up on housing. It's too expensive, and comes with too many rules.

Most of these guys just want to pitch a tent, and live the rest of their short lives out with a bit of false dignity.

And the drug use?

I once heard a homeless guy say, if you had to crawl into Scothbroom, after a day of being harassed by cops, and looking for food; you might want a stiff drink too. Let's not forget about the amount of self-medicating going on either.

(I know it's easy to throw your hands up, and lump all of them together. They are all very different. There are some professional beggars out there too. I've noticed a lot of foreigners working sympathy beg. Foreigners with jobs. Every American homeless person I know would never think about begging if they had a roof over their heads.)

Re: Dating in Delhi when you're poor

#143

Post by DoreenMichele »

wil421 wrote: post #138
DoreenMichele wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, some people took it and some did not. Yet you are trying to suggest we judge all homeless based on those who did not without knowing any further details. Damn them all to hell because some were offered housing and said "no." A lot of services offered to the homeless are really terrible. I never stayed in a shelter while homeless. They have rules that make it just shy of being a form of prison, they tend to not…

I’ve done outreach and volunteer work before. Not sure how you interpreted my reply but it was not a negative question. These topics are of interest to me.

I took it as negative because you closed with this:

They were offered housing while they get back on their feet and chose not to take it.

It's full of implicit accusation that the homeless are difficult, uncooperative, causing their own problems and you can't help them because they are irrational pains in the butt.

I interpreted it that way in part because many homeless services are so bad they help keep the problem alive rather than helping to solve it.

As just one example: Most homeless people have serious health issues. It's an underlying cause of their financial problems and a barrier to employment.

But if you go to a soup kitchen, you are exposed to other sick people, plus cigarette smoke and marijuana smoke. I eventually quit going to soup kitchens and just worked at finding other ways to keep myself fed because my health issues are my number one problem making my life not work, so anything that makes it harder for me to take care of my health is a very serious problem.

I think we should lower the barrier to food stamps in the US. It's a good program that allows you to access food from normal middle class venues which are actually clean etc. I think we should do all we can to cut the bureaucratic costs and as much as humanly possible say "If you want food stamps, here you go" without asking people to prove they need them.

But I don't expect anything like that will ever happen. Talk of UBI appears to be code for "And now rich people can say Shut up. You are getting a check, you ingrate." rather than a genuine attempt to give meaningful relief to poor Americans.

Cutting a check is an easy answer to a hard problem, so likely won't solve anything.

I've listed my blogs elsewhere in another comment if you genuinely want to know more about what I think about homelessness, housing issues and community development.

Re: Dating in Delhi when you're poor

#144

Post by sombremesa »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #107
sombremesa wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what the solution is for trying to promote better cross cultural understanding. I think that's just it: trying to promote better cross cultural understanding. That's something I tried with the GP here, but I could probably write up an article to be linked to in such discussions. > metrics like "How many meals per day do you get?" and "What kind of shelter do you have?" I think this is a good thought, a…

I'm a former military wife. Just trying to explain how military life is different to other Americans was insanely hard. I lived in the same country. I used the same currency. I spoke the same language. Yet my life was not like that of civilians I knew and their underlying assumptions and mine that informed our decisions just did not match up to such a degree that I eventually stopped trying to explain my life choices…

Thanks...I think I'm going to give up before I even start. The gap is far wider than I had ever imagined.

Re: Dating in Delhi when you're poor

#145

Post by [deleted] »

sombremesa wrote: post #7

My first thought when reading this was hoping that these types of articles will reduce the comments I see on the internet that try and compare Delhi/Mumbai squalor to LA. Then I read the first comment on this HN thread, which is directly comparing this to Toronto. So either Westerners don't realize that people in these places are making less money in a month than the middle class person can expect to spend in an aver…

[deleted]

Re: Dating in Delhi when you're poor

#146

Post by sombremesa »

bserge wrote: post #137
sombremesa wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the homeless person in Delhi will still commisserate with the homeless person in Toronto Perhaps, but it's worth pointing out that these experiences are qualitatively different. In India, being poor (especially if you're a certain caste) is tantamount to being non-human. You can be jailed, raped, mistreated, killed without consequence. Even the middle class is afforded little human dignity, the underclass have…

Why are these people seemingly just accepting their fate? What would it take for them to riot?

I grew up in Delhi (as may or may not be obvious from this thread), and once witnessed the aftermath of a home having been burgled.

The policeman on the scene summoned the watchman of the gated community and physically assaulted him (drawing blood), accusing him of having been negligent.

You can bet there was not a single consequence of this. The watchman was one of the underclass, and this is just what's expected.

I can't claim to know why things are like this, but there's rarely any justice for anyone in India, unless you're one of the elite or ultrarich. The judicial system is in shambles and the poor are just not afforded much humanity.

What do you think these people could do? Here is an example of what happens when the people try to change things in a "democracy" [0].

As a bonus, here are some choice videos of Indian politics (the second one is relevant to the story in footnote):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAOUmnSs5VA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5s4quyO2W0

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020–2021_Indian_farmers'_prot...

Re: Dating in Delhi when you're poor

#147

Post by retrac »

sombremesa wrote: post #7

My first thought when reading this was hoping that these types of articles will reduce the comments I see on the internet that try and compare Delhi/Mumbai squalor to LA. Then I read the first comment on this HN thread, which is directly comparing this to Toronto. So either Westerners don't realize that people in these places are making less money in a month than the middle class person can expect to spend in an aver…

I am sorry if my comment was presumptuous or inappropriate. It was not intended to be. I prefaced it with a disclaimer trying to contextualize how I was trying to relate to the story. I am aware I live in a rich country, that food and medical care as such are not an issue by comparison, even as a very poor person. I saw that the woman in the article earns barely a third what I received from the government in social assistance, on top of what I could earn. I try to be aware of that. I have only seen true slums from afar. Perhaps I have failed in that awareness. What I saw was a human story, about trying to find love with little resources and not much social standing. It is a universal theme and I tried to relate to it in that way, to feel what those people feel seeking love and companionship. I'm sorry if that was uncalled for and trying to turn the focus back on my relative privilege and material comfort. It wasn't intended to do so.

Re: Dating in Delhi when you're poor

#148

Post by bserge »

sombremesa wrote: post #146
bserge wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are these people seemingly just accepting their fate? What would it take for them to riot?

I grew up in Delhi (as may or may not be obvious from this thread), and once witnessed the aftermath of a home having been burgled. The policeman on the scene summoned the watchman of the gated community and physically assaulted him (drawing blood), accusing him of having been negligent. You can bet there was not a single consequence of this. The watchman was one of the underclass, and this is just what's expected. I…

I'm just wondering, if things are so bad, why are there no riots? Doesn't seem like there's much to lose tbh.

In my home country, they stormed the parliament and burned parts of it because the wrong party gained power (by fraudulent votes). If they were killing low class people, there would be riots, bombings and murders all around.

Re: Dating in Delhi when you're poor

#149

Post by alisonkisk »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #107
sombremesa wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't know what the solution is for trying to promote better cross cultural understanding. I think that's just it: trying to promote better cross cultural understanding. That's something I tried with the GP here, but I could probably write up an article to be linked to in such discussions. > metrics like "How many meals per day do you get?" and "What kind of shelter do you have?" I think this is a good thought, a…

I'm a former military wife. Just trying to explain how military life is different to other Americans was insanely hard. I lived in the same country. I used the same currency. I spoke the same language. Yet my life was not like that of civilians I knew and their underlying assumptions and mine that informed our decisions just did not match up to such a degree that I eventually stopped trying to explain my life choices…

It's not possible to make people understand. You can try it understand others, and some others can try to understand you, but you can't make someone's open their mind if they don't want to.

Re: Dating in Delhi when you're poor

#150

Post by [deleted] »

em-bee wrote: post #59
thebean11 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So either Westerners don't realize that people in these places are making less money in a month than the middle class person can expect to spend in an average afternoon You are making a comparison between two sums of money (the amount middle class people spend in an afternoon, and the amount poor people make in a month). Obviously I misinterpreted who the middle class people were, but I doubt I'm the only one. I th…

i am still confused why that makes a difference. to me the comment only makes sense if the middle class in india is more affluent than the middle class in the US. https://yourstory.com/2018/03/exactly-indias-middle-class-an...

[deleted]
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