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Why women in tech are so angry all the time

mashable.com

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Re: Why women in tech are so angry all the time

#81

Post by mthoms »

proc0 wrote: post #79
mthoms wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just because men do a bad thing, doesn't mean every single man is responsible for that. Where in the heck did you get that from? The author made no such claim. Anywhere. I also didn't feel like the author was "yelling at men". I felt she was trying to get us to understand her frustration. Confident, respectful men don't get offended by posts like this. She's not talking about me (generally speaking that is - I know…

The tone of the article is dealing in general terms. For example the closing part: > Next time you go to ask yourself why women in tech are so angry, ask yourself why you’re not angry with them. Is that for everyone? It sounds to be directed at the party that would not be angry, which is hyperbole for caring, and why would any women not care about this issue? Therefore this sounds like it's directed at men, at least…

Change "women" to "black people" in the sentence you quoted and it's not at all controversial. That is to say — white people who aren't guilty of racism in their industry should still be angry about the racism that does exist in it.

It's the same general principle.

Re: Why women in tech are so angry all the time

#82

Post by skinkestek »

st3fan wrote: post #65
skinkestek wrote: post #54

Let me start by saying that I've seen some really horrible and disgusting treatment of women compared to men. At one place. Out of 10. At least around here I also see that if two persons, one woman and one man, apply for the same position, and they are seen as exactly equally qualified, the woman gets hired first. Why? Because amount of women in the department is a KPI. I also see men walking circles around these iss…

> At least around here I also see that if two persons, one woman and one man, apply for the same position, and they are seen as exactly equally qualified, the woman gets hired first. Why? Because amount of women in the department is a KPI. Explain why this is a problem? You say these two candidates are equally great. Should the man have been picked?

No, absolutely not.

I'm just pointing out that at least around here, and in the companies I want to work in, women has an advantage from before they are hired.

I don't think this is necessarily true in USA and many other places.

But together with the PyCon story and others where men are massively disadvantaged while everyone pretend it is always easy for all men it might explain a bit of the feelings you sometimes see.

Re: Why women in tech are so angry all the time

#83

Post by st3fan »

skinkestek wrote: post #82
st3fan wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least around here I also see that if two persons, one woman and one man, apply for the same position, and they are seen as exactly equally qualified, the woman gets hired first. Why? Because amount of women in the department is a KPI. Explain why this is a problem? You say these two candidates are equally great. Should the man have been picked?

No, absolutely not. I'm just pointing out that at least around here, and in the companies I want to work in, women has an advantage from before they are hired. I don't think this is necessarily true in USA and many other places. But together with the PyCon story and others where men are massively disadvantaged while everyone pretend it is always easy for all men it might explain a bit of the feelings you sometimes se…

It is interesting that you say "men are massively disadvantaged". Because as a hiring manager I can tell you that my experience is that usually for engineering positions, 99 out of 100 applicants are ... men ...

Re: Why women in tech are so angry all the time

#84

Post by proc0 »

mthoms wrote: post #81
proc0 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tone of the article is dealing in general terms. For example the closing part: > Next time you go to ask yourself why women in tech are so angry, ask yourself why you’re not angry with them. Is that for everyone? It sounds to be directed at the party that would not be angry, which is hyperbole for caring, and why would any women not care about this issue? Therefore this sounds like it's directed at men, at least…

Change "women" to "black people" in the sentence you quoted and it's not at all controversial. That is to say — white people who aren't guilty of racism in their industry should still be angry about the racism that does exist in it. It's the same general principle.

i disagree, that is group-think and unfortunately the status quo right now is to encourage group-think. This is why someone who has nothing to do with something can be responsible for actions of someone else... because they are part of the same "group".

Re: Why women in tech are so angry all the time

#85

Post by jessedhillon »

ekager wrote: post #63
jessedhillon wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, I didn't say any of this. It's not controversial to talk about your experience. It's certainly controversial to generalize your experience across an entire industry, or sex. And it's not acceptable to be harassed, but yes it's normal and not specific to women.

So when ~50% of women working in tech have experienced harassment is that enough of a pattern to generalize? Or does it need to be 100% before we can talk about it? https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/40percent-of-women-in-tech-s... Beyond that, harassment is not the only problem I talked about.

I don't trust the results of anonymous online surveys, nor should you. It's amazing that any organization purporting to be journalistic would report such results, but those are the times we live in, I guess.

Anyway, my comment was about base rates of harassment received by anyone saying anything critical of anyone else: they are high, no matter who you are and what you are saying. It's not right, but it's not limited to women.

Re: Why women in tech are so angry all the time

#86

Post by spicyusername »

The experiences you describe are such a bummer. I've both witnessed similar situations and, as a man, unintentionally participated over the years while still growing up and maturing my professional "self".

Keep seeing something and saying something with articles like these. The culture is changing, even if it doesn't feel like it some days, and talking about it in the open is part of what fuels that change.

Re: Why women in tech are so angry all the time

#87

Post by sealeck »

proc0 wrote: post #4

Just because men do a bad thing, doesn't mean every single man is responsible for that. Not to mention all men have mothers, and they play a huge part in how their children grow up to treat others. To solve a problem, the root cause must be found, and the root cause of harassment is NOT other men. Sure men could help, but articles like this seem to demand it, like they're yelling at men, as a group, for the actions o…

This ignores pretty much all evidence to the contrary – attempting to place ideology above realism.

Re: Why women in tech are so angry all the time

#88

Post by mthoms »

proc0 wrote: post #84
mthoms wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Change "women" to "black people" in the sentence you quoted and it's not at all controversial. That is to say — white people who aren't guilty of racism in their industry should still be angry about the racism that does exist in it. It's the same general principle.

i disagree, that is group-think and unfortunately the status quo right now is to encourage group-think. This is why someone who has nothing to do with something can be responsible for actions of someone else... because they are part of the same "group".

No-one... not me, nor the post author, said all men are responsible for sexism. No-one is arguing that. You've simply imagined it.

The post author just said all men should be pissed off about its continuing prevalence.

You don't have to be pissed off. Just like you don't have to be pissed off about the continuing prevalence of racism.

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