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CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

calyxos.org

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Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#171

Post by vngzs »

_abox wrote: post #76
atatatat wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree. The reputation of Nick Calyx (worth a look his Wikipedia page), or GrapheneOS team, etc, is so much easier lost than that of, say, Google's Android team.....or iOS security team. Having said that: Calyx shouldn't be considered much more secure than Android Open Source Project (AOSP). That's where GrapheneOS shines. Calyx should, however, be considered more private than AOSP, less dodgy & exploitable than Sa…

Yeah GrapheneOS is security over privacy, Calyx is privacy over security (and has a bit more mainstream appeal with MicroG, supporting push messaging and location services etc). GrapheneOS has also pioneered a lot of security measures, a lot of which have been added to Android proper (if you see their feature log, a lot of it says "removed because it was introduced in Android"). I wonder if that wouldn't have been th…

GrapheneOS, lacking MicroG in the default install, is therefore more private than CalyxOS. Keeping Google out of the loop entirely is necessary for true privacy.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#172

Post by minsc__and__boo »

fitblipper wrote: post #28

The thing which always makes me hesitant about these projects is that they don't receive frequent security audits and not having an expensive brand behind them makes them more at risk to being willing to trash their name at the cost of my privacy and security. I consider these to be a fairly critical part of any project which claims superior privacy and security. I think about it this way: Should I trust A. The compa…

There was a time I would have gone with B), but I've been burned by too many "companies" with almost nothing to lose suddenly becoming malware or some other exploitive.

This new wave of privacy branding, without 3P verification, open sourcing, or even means of recourse seems to be the new frontier for these used car salesman "trust me, it's private" pitches.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#174

Post by corty »

chme wrote: post #163
corty wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. First, there are security measures that wreck privacy, e.g. sending all your data to some company's servers for virus scanning. Routing all your traffic through some filtering VPN provider. That kind of stuff. There are privacy measures that wreck security, e.g. not using personalized user accounts for certain things. Security is also mostly up to definition, a secure computer system is a system that only does wh…

> No. First, there are security measures that wreck privacy, e.g. sending all your data to some company's servers for virus scanning. Routing all your traffic through some filtering VPN provider. That kind of stuff. There are privacy measures that wreck security, e.g. not using personalized user accounts for certain things. Aren't those examples more examples of bad security by introducing single points of failure?

Maybe, but there are more examples along those lines that don't introduce single points of failure.

E.g. very all-encompassing logging is generally good for security, and if the logs are stored in a secure fashion, there is also no security problem created. However, privacy suffers because one might log things one shouldn't log.

In the other direction, file and traffic encryption is good for privacy, and the less "permeable" you make it, i.e. the less readable for admins, system task, scanners, the better for privacy. However, for security, encrypting just for the user's eyes is a huge problem, because you cannot do malware scanning, you cannot do exfiltration prevention. Having users bring their own device into a work network is good for privacy, because those devices don't have central admin access, but bad for security, because same reason.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#175

Post by vngzs »

runawaybottle wrote: post #108
securitypunk wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone who has managed a product security program will tell you that's it's impossible for small groups to keep up with the complexity and attack surface of products like android. From a consumer perspective, going with A and trusting the company is by far the safest option.

I can appreciate that but option A actors are now in full dictator mode with respect to how they are willing to breach privacy and monetize their users. How did Linux keep up with security updates?

You have an army of volunteers backporting patches, in the case of Debian. It's been done, but it takes a certain amount of support.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#176

Post by bubblethink »

fitblipper wrote: post #28

The thing which always makes me hesitant about these projects is that they don't receive frequent security audits and not having an expensive brand behind them makes them more at risk to being willing to trash their name at the cost of my privacy and security. I consider these to be a fairly critical part of any project which claims superior privacy and security. I think about it this way: Should I trust A. The compa…

Man, stuff like this is so depressing to read. Like this is supposed to be a forum for showcasing new tech, projects, etc. What's the point of having this if people in the industry are going to say, "I don't like it because it's not backed by a trillion dollar company". What will change ?

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#177

Post by LukeShu »

atatatat wrote: post #57
fitblipper wrote: post #28

The thing which always makes me hesitant about these projects is that they don't receive frequent security audits and not having an expensive brand behind them makes them more at risk to being willing to trash their name at the cost of my privacy and security. I consider these to be a fairly critical part of any project which claims superior privacy and security. I think about it this way: Should I trust A. The compa…

Disagree. The reputation of Nick Calyx (worth a look his Wikipedia page), or GrapheneOS team, etc, is so much easier lost than that of, say, Google's Android team.....or iOS security team. Having said that: Calyx shouldn't be considered much more secure than Android Open Source Project (AOSP). That's where GrapheneOS shines. Calyx should, however, be considered more private than AOSP, less dodgy & exploitable than Sa…

> Nick Calyx (worth a look his Wikipedia page)

For those struggling to do this: "Nicholas Merrill" is the name you'll need to look up on Wikipedia.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#178

Post by cdesai »

LukeShu wrote: post #165
cdesai wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You definitely could, we used to support it in a previous iteration. This was also possible on the Nexus devices, although the oldest I've tried it is the Nexus 6P. It just worked slightly differently on those, nowadays you enroll the public key by flashing it to the device, on those (Pixel 1, Nexus) you used to have the public key embedded in the kernel.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Pixel 1 blindly accepts whatever pubkey is embedded in the kernel, but displays the warning screen on boot if it's not Google's pubkey (to clarify, not a click-through screen, just a temporary splash screen). I guess yeah it's technically Verified Boot, but if it just accepts any key you throw at it, then the security guarantees are a lot less. You can't tell it about your pubkey to get the s…

Telling even the newer devices about your pubkey doesn't get the scare screen away. You see a Yellow Verified Boot warning meaning the OS is signed and verifies but with a custom set of keys.

When you lock the bootloader you block other keys, since fastboot is pretty much disabled when you do that, and the only way to install something would be via OTA updates which would have to be signed with your custom keys.

I guess maybe if you're able to get a root exploit and replace the boot image? Not exactly sure what would happen then, need to try.

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#179

Post by kemenaran »

WorldPeas wrote: post #162
vbsteven wrote: post #113

I’m thinking about buying a degoogled Android phone to replace my iPhone. The main things I want are: * Spotify needs to work over Bluetooth in my car * WhatsApp needs to work (preferably with push notifications) * I need the Fitbit app to work so my watch can show push notifications from my personal apps * a network-based location provider to be consumed by my personal apps (I’m working on a personal data and automa…

heres what i do and it works great: use the regular google build of android BUT on a fresh install, disable all google apps sans chrome, use it to install fdroid, then uninstall that, from there use TrackerControl to prevent google and others from phoning home, use the aurora store for apps, use organicmaps for maps, signal for sms florisboard for keyboard, etc. you'll have a google-free experience which you can exit…

Interesting setup.

Do you have any resources about how efficient TrackerControl is at preventing Google to collect data from the phone various system services?

Re: CalyxOS – De-Googled Android Alternative

#180

Post by cdesai »

vngzs wrote: post #171
_abox wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah GrapheneOS is security over privacy, Calyx is privacy over security (and has a bit more mainstream appeal with MicroG, supporting push messaging and location services etc). GrapheneOS has also pioneered a lot of security measures, a lot of which have been added to Android proper (if you see their feature log, a lot of it says "removed because it was introduced in Android"). I wonder if that wouldn't have been th…

GrapheneOS, lacking MicroG in the default install, is therefore more private than CalyxOS. Keeping Google out of the loop entirely is necessary for true privacy.

On CalyxOS you do get an option to disable microG when setting it up for the first time, see https://calyxos.org/features/microg/#1-microg-disabled

microG being disabled but present is still enough for some apps to work, which makes sense given that you can disable Google Play Services on the stock OS.

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