Yes how do they not allow govt to ask them to scan for their set of restricted hashes?
An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology
61–70 of 713 posts
Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology
#62Isn’t this just wrong? “ Apple's proposed technology works by continuously monitoring all photos stored or shared on a user's iPhone, iPad or Mac, and notifying the authorities if a certain number of objectionable photos is detected.” From: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_... “ Before an image is stored in iCloud Photos, an on-device matching process is performed for that image against the…
I don’t see where in the first quotation it says that the scanning takes place after iCloud upload. It just says monitoring.
Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology
#63While I applaud the goal, this is likely not to achieve it on its own. Those that should be affected are probably not using Messanger to begin with and if they are they can easilly switch to other communication apps.
It is also not quite clear if Apple is taking a moral or legal stand here. If it is legal then this could in the future open doors to:
- Scanning for other types of illegal content
- Scanning for copyrighted content (music, images, books, ...)
- Scanning your iCloud files and documents
- Scanning emails to make sure you are not doing anyting illegal
If it is morally driven and Apple wants to really take a stand against any CSAM material on its devices, they would really have to do it at a system level, monitoring all data being transferred (including all communications, all browsing etc) so this could just be the first step.
A moral-based agenda would be much easier for broader public to accept, while a legal-based agenda could lead to other kinds of privacy-intruding consequences. And even a moral-based agenda would still be a precedent as ultimately we do not know what are Apple's "moral values" and what would it be ready to intrude user's privacy over in the future?
Seems like a slippery slope for a company to take, any way you turn it, specially if privacy is one of your main selling points.
Another thought: if we as a society agree that CSAM is unacceptable, why not globally prevent it at an internet router level? edit: jetlagged... we can't because data is encrypted. It has to be at client level, pre-encyption.
Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think there is a very deep and troublesome philosophical issue here. Ceci n'est pas une pipe. A picture of child abuse /is not/ child abuse. Let me ask you a counter-question. If I am able to draw child pornography so realistically that you couldn't easily tell, am I committing a crime by drawing?
Yes. People have been convicted for possession of hand-drawn and computer-generated images. Editing a child's image to make it pornographic is also illegal. So some "deepfake" videos using faces from young celebs are in all likelihood very illegal in many jurisdictions. Images can be illegal if all people are of age, but are portrayed as underage. Many historical dramas take legal advice about this when they have adu…
This topic is really fascinating to me, how we deal with images of bad things. Clearly, murder and assault is fine to reproduce at 100% realism - but even plain consensual sex is forbidden in the US for a wider audience.
This reminds me of a classic Swedish movie I watched, I forget its name, it's made in the 70s and contains upskirt panty shots of an actress who is playing a 14-year-old, along with her exploring sexuality with a same-age male peer. I think the actual actress was around 14 years old too. It made me feel real uneasy, maybe because my parents in law were around, but also because I thought "wait, this must be illegal to watch". In the end, the movie was really just a coming-of-age story from a time when we were more relaxed about these things.
Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology
#65I recently listened to a Darknet Diaries episode on messaging app Kik. This app is apparently being used by many people to trade child pornography. In this episode, there was some criticism expressed on how Kik doesn't scan all the images on their platform for child pornography. I would really like to hear from people who sign this open letter, how they think about this. Should the internet be a free for all place wi…
I don't want to be arrested by the FBI and my life ruined because my daughter, who is 6 and doesn't know any better, takes a selfie with my phone while she happens to be undressed/changing clothes and the photo automatically syncs to the cloud.
Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology
#66Please talk to non-tech people around you about this. This overreach simply cannot stand, and from a company that sees success from touting itself as a privacy-centric alternative? These really are some dark times. I imagine that if the world had Stasi fresher in its mind, this would never have happened.
Anyone who engaged in such a discussion with a non-technical person is going to defacto seem like an advocate for child pornography, similar to how advocating for encryption can easily be twisted to being pro-crime.
Having said that, there is an enormous amount of misinformation and fear-mongering about a pretty tame change. This seems like so much ado about very close to nothing.
a) They optionally scan messaged photos for nudity using a NN if the participants are children and in a family (the account grouping), and the group adult(s) have opted in, giving children warnings and information if they send or receive such material. A+++ thumbs up.
b) They scan photos that you've uploaded to iCloud (available at photos.icloud.com, unencrypted -- in the E2E sense, effectively "plaintext" from Apple's perspective -- etc) for known CP hashes. Bizarrely Apple decided to scan these on device as well, causing 99% of the outrage and confusion, yet every major cloud photo service in the world does such checks for the same reason, whether you have the photo set to private or not, and presumably Apple decided to do it on device simply as free distributed computing, taking advantage of hundreds of millions of high performance chips, but most importantly as a PR move demonstrating that "Apple Silicon helps with Child Safety", etc.
That's it. Various "this is a harbinger of doom and tomorrow they're going to..." arguments are unconvincing. This does absolutely nothing to break or subvert E2E encryption or on device privacy.
EDIT: The moderation of this comment has been fascinating, going to double digits, down to negatives, back up again, etc.
Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology
#67I guess more the reason to use vintage computing for personal then? You can even disconnect them from Internet whenever not needed.
Then you use the modern computer your company provides strictly for business purposes.
Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology
#68I recently listened to a Darknet Diaries episode on messaging app Kik. This app is apparently being used by many people to trade child pornography. In this episode, there was some criticism expressed on how Kik doesn't scan all the images on their platform for child pornography. I would really like to hear from people who sign this open letter, how they think about this. Should the internet be a free for all place wi…
I won't use a service that performs dragnet surveillance on my communication. The US Postal service does not open every single letter to check if it contains illegal material. If I rent a storage unit, the storage company does not open up my boxes to see if I have albums of child pornography. This move by Apple is equivalent. I'm going to turn this around and say that those in favor of Apple's move: "Should the inter…
> The US Postal service does not open every single letter to check if it contains illegal material.
You'd be surprised about the amount of packages that gets x-rayed in order to find drugs. But yes, you're 100% right that it's not all of them.
Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology
#69I recently listened to a Darknet Diaries episode on messaging app Kik. This app is apparently being used by many people to trade child pornography. In this episode, there was some criticism expressed on how Kik doesn't scan all the images on their platform for child pornography. I would really like to hear from people who sign this open letter, how they think about this. Should the internet be a free for all place wi…
I think the best way to stop child porn is to install government provided monitoring software + require an always online chip to be present on any video capture system and any media player must submit screen hashes + geolocation and owner ID to a government service. If the device fails to submit hashes for more than 24 it should block further operation. Failing this we will never be safe from child porn in the digital world.
Not doing anything opens the door to further abuse.
Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology
#70It has been admitted in the past and now in the open. Apple Inc. is not your friend. [0]
The author of this Tweet has a point and made it clear all along for a long time.