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An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

appleprivacyletter.com

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Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#51

Post by toxik »

quenix wrote: post #38
toxik wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does simply not follow from logic. Child abuse existed before cameras. Edit: People are unhappy with this refutation, so a second one then. The claim, specifically, is that CP is CA because CP requires CA to happen. So a photo of theft is theft. A recording of genocide is genocide. Clearly absurd. Never mind the context that the pornography in my question is drawn, thus no actual child was hurt. Edit 2: The poin…

Sure, some child abuse isn't perpetrated for the purpose of being filmed and sold/distributed. But a large percentage is. That large percentage is disincentivized when technology that makes it more difficult to spread and/or makes it easier for LE to apprehend owners is implemented. I never said that there would no longer be any child abuse with these steps, just less of it.

I think you'll be hard pressed to show this with any kind of evidence. What happens when you effectively ban some expression? People hide that expression. Likewise, if you are successful in this CSAM pursuit, you'll mostly drive pedophiles to reduce evidence sharing. I bet you dollars to donuts, the people who fuck kids, will still fuck kids.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#52

Post by faeyanpiraat »

tobyhinloopen wrote: post #35
toxik wrote: post #3

Please talk to non-tech people around you about this. This overreach simply cannot stand, and from a company that sees success from touting itself as a privacy-centric alternative? These really are some dark times. I imagine that if the world had Stasi fresher in its mind, this would never have happened.

Talking about this with non-tech people might make the distrust in anything they don’t understand worse. Think vaccines.

Yes, most people are not good at persuasion, and a generic mention of the fact may be harmful as you say.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#53

Post by toxik »

donkeyd wrote: post #16
toxik wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a very deep and troublesome philosophical issue here. Ceci n'est pas une pipe. A picture of child abuse /is not/ child abuse. Let me ask you a counter-question. If I am able to draw child pornography so realistically that you couldn't easily tell, am I committing a crime by drawing?

> am I committing a crime by drawing That really depends on the law in the country where you're doing that. According to the law in my country, yes, you are. None of this actually answers my question though, it's just a separate discussion. I would appreciate an actual answer.

Right, my question is of course a rhetorical one. If I similarly draw other crimes being committed, the same does not apply. Why is that?

And to address your explicit question, it is far too complex and specific to a given community to answer in any meaningful way here. I can tell you what isn't the answer though: deploying spyware on phones worldwide.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#54

Post by aidenn0 »

donkeyd wrote: post #4

I recently listened to a Darknet Diaries episode on messaging app Kik. This app is apparently being used by many people to trade child pornography. In this episode, there was some criticism expressed on how Kik doesn't scan all the images on their platform for child pornography. I would really like to hear from people who sign this open letter, how they think about this. Should the internet be a free for all place wi…

I won't use a service that performs dragnet surveillance on my communication. The US Postal service does not open every single letter to check if it contains illegal material. If I rent a storage unit, the storage company does not open up my boxes to see if I have albums of child pornography. This move by Apple is equivalent.

I'm going to turn this around and say that those in favor of Apple's move: "Should the internet be a place where your every move is surveilled?" given that we have some expectation of privacy in real life.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#56

Post by CubsFan1060 »

Isn’t this just wrong?

“ Apple's proposed technology works by continuously monitoring all photos stored or shared on a user's iPhone, iPad or Mac, and notifying the authorities if a certain number of objectionable photos is detected.”

From: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_...

“ Before an image is stored in iCloud Photos, an on-device matching process is performed for that image against the unreadable set of known CSAM hashes. “

I think it only does this before iCloud upload.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#57

Post by cle »

tobyhinloopen wrote: post #35
toxik wrote: post #3

Please talk to non-tech people around you about this. This overreach simply cannot stand, and from a company that sees success from touting itself as a privacy-centric alternative? These really are some dark times. I imagine that if the world had Stasi fresher in its mind, this would never have happened.

Talking about this with non-tech people might make the distrust in anything they don’t understand worse. Think vaccines.

Intentionally deceiving people is probably not a good strategy for building their trust.

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#58

Post by crocodiletears »

tobyhinloopen wrote: post #35
toxik wrote: post #3

Please talk to non-tech people around you about this. This overreach simply cannot stand, and from a company that sees success from touting itself as a privacy-centric alternative? These really are some dark times. I imagine that if the world had Stasi fresher in its mind, this would never have happened.

Talking about this with non-tech people might make the distrust in anything they don’t understand worse. Think vaccines.

Refusing to acknowledge egregious top-down decisions which threaten or violate either one's well-being or some perceived fundamental right has a much worse effect on public trust.

"Why didn't you tell me this was going on?" "You're simply too stupid to handle the idea that your betters might occasionally be untrustworthy"

Re: An Open Letter Against Apple's Privacy-Invasive Content Scanning Technology

#59

Post by veeti »

donkeyd wrote: post #34
h0mie wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should all personal computers be scanned all the time by windows/apple/... in case it contains cp?

Are you unable to answer any of the questions I asked? I'm seriously interested in hearing, from people who think Apple is in the wrong, where the border of acceptability is. Would you prefer iOS submitted the photo's to their cloud unencrypted and Apple scanned them there? Because that's what the others are doing.

iCloud photos are not end-to-end encrypted, Apple has full access to them. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202303
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