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Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

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Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#781

Post by igorkraw »

azth wrote: post #64
igorkraw wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you'd have to give some evidence for the claims you are making (voluntary, win-win, creating a company being collaborative...) as long as the US doesn't have free health care,free housing and/or some form of UBI. "Take job where you have to pee in bottles or live in squalor" doesn't seem that voluntary to me

The onus is on the person making the claim to provide the evidence. Forming a company (that doesn't work in immoral areas) is a perfectly ethical and legal way of making money. UBI is not the only solution. Islamic countries have for over 1400 years had the Zakat system, which provides for the poor and needy.

Yeah and I asked OP to provide evidence for their claims. Forming a company is not the same as making money of your workers, and just because it's allowed under the current rules doesn't mean it's ethical. Qnd regarding zakat, I know too little about it, but I'm wary of any solution which boils down to "charity" because that makes the receivers dependent on keeping their benefactors happy.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#782

Post by igorkraw »

engineer_22 wrote: post #68
igorkraw wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like you'd have to give some evidence for the claims you are making (voluntary, win-win, creating a company being collaborative...) as long as the US doesn't have free health care,free housing and/or some form of UBI. "Take job where you have to pee in bottles or live in squalor" doesn't seem that voluntary to me

There are many places in the United States that have free healthcare, free or reduced price housing, and assistance payments for the poor and sick or injured. These things are paid for with public money through government programs. Personally I think everyone deserves a certain level of dignity, especially when they're going through hard times. But I've also seen plenty of examples of people who "work the system", wh…

Where are those places and why aren't people making use of them? I think at least one presidential candidate ran on a healthcare for all platform, so it seems like I'm not the only one who doesn't know this.

And it always strikes me as weird how willing people are to waste money and create inefficient systems only to keep some freeloaders from enjoying their life but balk at hunting down rich people for tax evasion, imposing proportional fines for offenses like they do in Finland or closing tax loop holes. I mean I think I understand why but I find it weird.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#783

Post by masklinn »

shry4ns wrote: post #522
texasbigdata wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your representation is a bit exaggerated. The law simplistically simplifies to: if your income is above $X, then if your foreign tax payment $Y is less than the theoretical amount of tax you would have paid doing the same work under American Tax laws $Z, then please remit the difference ($Z-$Y) to the American government. I've personally filled out the forms several times, for multiple periods (full and partial). How…

Noob question -- what do you mean by harmonization trends in the EU? I couldn't quite understand from a google search or maybe even what exactly to search for.

Harmonisation in the EU context is the convergence of standards and legal systems, in order to increase pan-european consistency and facilitate the free movement of people, goods, and services.

See « harmonisation of law » on the wiki.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#784

Post by ciguy »

aerostable_slug wrote: post #719
ciguy wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they absolutely will not. I won't go into details but I can tell you from personal experience this is unequivocally false. The USA will in most cases do exactly nothing for their citizens in distress. Even the local US embassies will refuse to get involved in almost all cases. You know who did get involved in our situation when I was with a group of mixed citizens from USA, UK, EU etc...? The UK and Denmark. Fran…

Except the Marines and/or SEALs do come to save people. Perhaps there are political complications you aren't mentioning. Perhaps you got into trouble in a nation with a halfway-functioning government (so diplomacy trumps men with rifles). It is provably true the US does send armed forces in to save citizens, and it is obviously true that many other countries simply lack the ability to do so. That isn't a license to b…

You're so unbelievably naive I have to think you are trolling. Or 10 years old. I honestly can't tell which.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#785

Post by ramblerman »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #502
fmajid wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some are "accidental Americans" like UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson, born in the US, who discovered as a US citizen he had to pay capital gains taxes when he sold his London apartment. Australia requires its parliamentarians to have only Australian citizenship and some discovered for the same reason they were not eligible. Furthermore, the burden of FATCA is sufficiently onerous that many banks etc. just refuse to d…

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson aka Boris Johnson is not as clumsy as his haircut makes him look to be. The guy keeps fit, doesn't look like Rambo but he is fit with a bit a sticky build. He is intelligent, he survived the muddy waters of politics, affairs and is prime minister. Of course he always knew he is American dual citizen, a person like him does not handle an apartment sale himself, he has handlers and ad…

He might be smarter than he looks, but he certainly isn't "fit".

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#786

Post by masklinn »

charonn0 wrote: post #570
academia_hack wrote: post #42

It's so irritating to be an American that has moved overseas. Basically the only country in the world that charges taxes on money you make and spend somewhere else, just because of where you were born. Thanks to IRS regulations, 90% of investment firms will just reject me outright rather than deal with the paperwork. Getting someone to help file my inordinately complex taxes costs thousands of dollars more than I act…

It must be nice to have problems like that.

You don’t need to be rich to move out of the US.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#787

Post by masklinn »

ne0flex wrote: post #416

Being a Canadian, I started a tax-free savings account "TFSA" (similar to a US Roth IRA but with way less restrictions)when I turned 18 and was investing heavily in it. A few years later I would get a green card and move to the US and didn't touch the account afterwards except make a few rebalances here and there. My brokerage asked me to update my information and asked me if I was a "US" person to which I answered y…

TBF that is within expectations. You’d have similar issues the other way around or between different countries. It’s rather frustrating (especially because of the different standards in tax freedom) but unsurprising.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#788

Post by trasz »

FredPret wrote: post #761
trasz wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FBI has no jurisdiction outside the US, so you don’t gain anything this way. Free speech in US is poorer than in most Western countries, as it fails to protect you from anything other than most government institutions. For example in US it’s fine for your employer to fire you because they don’t like what you say in your private time. Other countries provide better protection. My question is still unanswered: why woul…

No one is thinking that. It was an example by the other commenter of a free and valuable service provided by the government as part of their side of the bargain

A service which is always provided for free - there are no countries that invoice victims. It’s the fact that the commenter assumed it might not be free that’s frightening.

Re: Wealthy people are renouncing American citizenship

#790

Post by ithkuil »

zarzavat wrote: post #736
didntknowya wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hah yes this. the buffoon act really makes people underestimate- and if i dare say, sympathize with him. but he's much more competent (at getting what he wants) than people give him credit for.

That's what he wants you to think. In reality he really is just a buffoon.

Nobody will ever know, not even him!

Good read: Kim Philby as a Real Case of Indeterminacy of Radical Interpretation:

http://polatulet.narod.ru/dvc/ddbs/dennett_breaking.html#ch_...

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