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U.S. FTC says Facebook misused privacy decree to shut down ad research

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Re: U.S. FTC says Facebook misused privacy decree to shut down ad research

#31
post #13

Don’t most websites prohibit someone from scraping and harvesting the data on them? Most recently, I can think of Yelp, Amazon, and GitHub prohibiting this, as well as the Aaron Swartz case.

“Prohibit” is an interesting word that in the world of public web publishing of data is actually pretty meaningless. Certainly companies take measures to prevent bulk scraping when they can detect it and have legal remedies if copyrighted or owned material is republished. But simply telling me I am prohibited to hold on to a copy of your site’s data is pretty meaningless when my browser caches your page and you want…

By accessing the data on a website, you are forming a contract with that website and are subject to the website’s terms and conditions.

As a website owner, beyond that, there is no need to tell someone they cannot access your site if you simply block them from accessing your servers instead using a multitude of techniques.

Where does caching come into play at all here? You cannot cache content to begin with if the server is blocking access in the first place. And if you have already cached it in the act of violating said website’s terms of service, then you are still not in compliance.

Re: U.S. FTC says Facebook misused privacy decree to shut down ad research

#33

“The FTC received no notice that Facebook would be publicly invoking our consent decree to justify terminating academic research earlier this week.” Of course they didn't. After you are fined 5b it's no surprise you go full on defensive. What's the alternative? Asking the ftc every single time what they should do? I'm no fan of Facebook but if they didn't stop the research they could be found guilty again for the exa…

Let me see if I understand.

Facebook does X, which the Government decides causes Y amount of harm to society. The Government compels Facebook to fund independent research to verify this claim.

Independent research finds that Facebook does cause some amount of harm to society. Government uses that evidence to compel Facebook to act in ways that might reduce that harm.

Facebook agrees and decides to implement controls that might reduce this harm.

Facebook then wonders, “hmm why not just stop paying for this research, it’s actually leading to worse outcomes for us” and decides to shut down that research.

> What's the alternative? Asking the ftc every single time what they should do?

Maybe nothing that extreme, but certainly reasonable controls to operate in a way that’s verified by independent research as to not cause harm to society.

Re: U.S. FTC says Facebook misused privacy decree to shut down ad research

#34
So Facebook has a comprehensive access control system in the internal APIs. As part of the FTC consent decree, Facebook has been doing sweeps of all data types and having the owners of those data types tighten up the access control rules on those data types - particularly, product teams have to remove access control checks that aren’t fine grained enough. I’m guessing one such change broke the ads research tool.

Re: U.S. FTC says Facebook misused privacy decree to shut down ad research

#36

“The FTC received no notice that Facebook would be publicly invoking our consent decree to justify terminating academic research earlier this week.” Of course they didn't. After you are fined 5b it's no surprise you go full on defensive. What's the alternative? Asking the ftc every single time what they should do? I'm no fan of Facebook but if they didn't stop the research they could be found guilty again for the exa…

Facebook fined 5B ? Do you have any source ?

Re: U.S. FTC says Facebook misused privacy decree to shut down ad research

#37
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Prohibit” is an interesting word that in the world of public web publishing of data is actually pretty meaningless. Certainly companies take measures to prevent bulk scraping when they can detect it and have legal remedies if copyrighted or owned material is republished. But simply telling me I am prohibited to hold on to a copy of your site’s data is pretty meaningless when my browser caches your page and you want…

By accessing the data on a website, you are forming a contract with that website and are subject to the website’s terms and conditions. As a website owner, beyond that, there is no need to tell someone they cannot access your site if you simply block them from accessing your servers instead using a multitude of techniques. Where does caching come into play at all here? You cannot cache content to begin with if the se…

Not according to some rulings the last few years. A contract requires a meeting of minds.

Re: U.S. FTC says Facebook misused privacy decree to shut down ad research

#38
post #36

“The FTC received no notice that Facebook would be publicly invoking our consent decree to justify terminating academic research earlier this week.” Of course they didn't. After you are fined 5b it's no surprise you go full on defensive. What's the alternative? Asking the ftc every single time what they should do? I'm no fan of Facebook but if they didn't stop the research they could be found guilty again for the exa…

Facebook fined 5B ? Do you have any source ?

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/07/ftc-i...

Re: U.S. FTC says Facebook misused privacy decree to shut down ad research

#39

“The FTC received no notice that Facebook would be publicly invoking our consent decree to justify terminating academic research earlier this week.” Of course they didn't. After you are fined 5b it's no surprise you go full on defensive. What's the alternative? Asking the ftc every single time what they should do? I'm no fan of Facebook but if they didn't stop the research they could be found guilty again for the exa…

I’m no expert but I think this actually is what banks do? The regulators can’t give them a definitive answer in advance, but they can hire former regulators and get an idea of what the regulators will find favorable, and make sure that announcements of new initiatives won’t be a complete surprise to the regulators.

But maybe I’m just misinterpreting something half remembered from a Matt Levine column.

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