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Apple Is Flailing Badly At The Edges

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Re: Apple Is Flailing Badly At The Edges

#21

Post by ank7ovy7 »

jrockway wrote: post #20
tptacek wrote: post #2

Apple is definitely the worst computer company. Except for all the other ones.

What's wrong with Lenovo and Dell? They both make millions of solid machines. I suppose that they're not very sexy... but I tend to pay attention to what's on the screen, not whether or not the case won any design contests. (And FWIW, the Thinkpad has won a lot of design awards. The matte-black box is beautiful and durable. The Macbook feels like a cheap toy in comparison.) Finally, Asus' eeepc is also a beautiful co…

It's the OS.

Re: Apple Is Flailing Badly At The Edges

#22

Post by mattmaroon »

tjr wrote: post #18
martythemaniak wrote: post #9

"I love that damn phone, and it will take a lot more than lost apps and dropped calls to get it out of my hands." As long as stuff like this (and you can see a lot more of it here on HN) is the prevailing wisdom, Apple has little motivation to actually do anything to fix their problems. The hype around the iPhone is particularly telling - people put up with developer draconian restrictions, they put up with unstable…

I went through several Palm Treos before getting an iPhone. The Treo made me almost give up on smartphones; I was considering going back to a non-smartphone, but decided to give the iPhone a try, as I like Apple computers. I was very happy with the iPhone, far more than the Treo. I haven't noticed dropped calls, lost apps, or, really, much of anything significant. The interface seems sluggish at times, but overall it…

Palm OS is brutal. Also, having a touchscreen actually detracts from that phone. I switched from the 650 to a Moto Q and greatly prefer the Q. I don't find myself trying to tap at things that are way smaller than my finger, or worrying if I'm going to drop the stylus. But I still get the high call quality and the amazing keypad for tapping out emails.

Re: Apple Is Flailing Badly At The Edges

#23

Post by mattmaroon »

evgen wrote: post #16
sdurkin wrote: post #12

A couple anecdotes of broken machines does not make a trend, or a commercial failure.

And to prove that the plural of anecdote is not data, today's news is that Apple has once again topped the PC industry in consumer satisfaction scores [ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10019711-37.html?part=rss&... ] and is the only company in their class whose satisfaction rating actually increased since the last survey.

Consumer satisfaction is as much about marketing as it is about sustained product quality. Apple customers may just be happy to be part of the club, even while their iPhone drains in one hour or their Macbooks are in an out of the shop, because it's better than using Windows.

I'd be much more impressed with them leading something comparable to the IQS JD Power does for cars. It's kinda sad that nothing like that exists.

Re: Apple Is Flailing Badly At The Edges

#24

Post by evgen »

mattmaroon wrote: post #23
evgen wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to prove that the plural of anecdote is not data, today's news is that Apple has once again topped the PC industry in consumer satisfaction scores [ http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10019711-37.html?part=rss&... ] and is the only company in their class whose satisfaction rating actually increased since the last survey.

Consumer satisfaction is as much about marketing as it is about sustained product quality. Apple customers may just be happy to be part of the club, even while their iPhone drains in one hour or their Macbooks are in an out of the shop, because it's better than using Windows. I'd be much more impressed with them leading something comparable to the IQS JD Power does for cars. It's kinda sad that nothing like that exis…

Ah yes, the old "they are all stupid sheep" explanation for results which do not support your particular worldview. The study in question is pretty open about its methodology, and includes everything from product quality to customer complaints and perceived value of the products. I guess the difference between real social scientists who build econometric models to rank consumer satisfaction values over tens of thousands of subject interviews and you is that the former can speak from authority and you speak only for your own biases and perceptions.

Re: Apple Is Flailing Badly At The Edges

#25

Post by mattmaroon »

evgen wrote: post #24
mattmaroon wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consumer satisfaction is as much about marketing as it is about sustained product quality. Apple customers may just be happy to be part of the club, even while their iPhone drains in one hour or their Macbooks are in an out of the shop, because it's better than using Windows. I'd be much more impressed with them leading something comparable to the IQS JD Power does for cars. It's kinda sad that nothing like that exis…

Ah yes, the old "they are all stupid sheep" explanation for results which do not support your particular worldview. The study in question is pretty open about its methodology, and includes everything from product quality to customer complaints and perceived value of the products. I guess the difference between real social scientists who build econometric models to rank consumer satisfaction values over tens of thousa…

Has nothing to do with stupid sheep or Apple in particular or my world view. It's about sound methodology. The reason the IQS metric is the gold standard in the auto industry is because marketing ensures that quality (from the reliability standpoint) and customer satisfaction are two very different things.

One was being used as a proxy for the other here. Apple products could be somewhat unreliable yet still score high in overall satisfaction, apparently even given the methodology they used.

Also, since it specifically mentions that the 3g iPhone is not included, that probably means that the older version and iPods are. Is it fair to rate Apple against HP when most Apple customers have used only their portable media players? Do HP's printers count in this?

Re: Apple Is Flailing Badly At The Edges

#26

Post by axod »

martythemaniak wrote: post #9

"I love that damn phone, and it will take a lot more than lost apps and dropped calls to get it out of my hands." As long as stuff like this (and you can see a lot more of it here on HN) is the prevailing wisdom, Apple has little motivation to actually do anything to fix their problems. The hype around the iPhone is particularly telling - people put up with developer draconian restrictions, they put up with unstable…

Name a smartphone that has a web browser that competes. Also one that has a keyboard that can compete with the iPhones.

Re: Apple Is Flailing Badly At The Edges

#27

Post by kschrader »

axod wrote: post #26
martythemaniak wrote: post #9

"I love that damn phone, and it will take a lot more than lost apps and dropped calls to get it out of my hands." As long as stuff like this (and you can see a lot more of it here on HN) is the prevailing wisdom, Apple has little motivation to actually do anything to fix their problems. The hype around the iPhone is particularly telling - people put up with developer draconian restrictions, they put up with unstable…

Name a smartphone that has a web browser that competes. Also one that has a keyboard that can compete with the iPhones.

Wait, a keyboard that can compete?

How about a Blackberry, Treo, or anything else with a physical keyboard?

Re: Apple Is Flailing Badly At The Edges

#28

Post by axod »

kschrader wrote: post #27
axod wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name a smartphone that has a web browser that competes. Also one that has a keyboard that can compete with the iPhones.

Wait, a keyboard that can compete? How about a Blackberry, Treo, or anything else with a physical keyboard?

Sorry, I really can't deal with a physical keyboard that requires a toothpick to use. I've tried those, and it's just slow and laborious compared with the iPhone for me.

Re: Apple Is Flailing Badly At The Edges

#29

Post by redorb »

axod wrote: post #28
kschrader wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, a keyboard that can compete? How about a Blackberry, Treo, or anything else with a physical keyboard?

Sorry, I really can't deal with a physical keyboard that requires a toothpick to use. I've tried those, and it's just slow and laborious compared with the iPhone for me.

my htc dash, t-mobile phone, has a nice keyboard and with opera mini (free) it displays full web pages with a zoom ability. the phones battery life is about 6 solid hard use internet hours, not bad

Re: Apple Is Flailing Badly At The Edges

#30

Post by randallsquared »

martythemaniak wrote: post #17
jsdalton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lots of iPhone users never had a smartphone before. This statement may be technically true, but I highly doubt it's true among the writers and commentators like Arrington that we hear so much about the iPhone from. In fact, most of the people I know who have iPhones are early adopter types. People like my mom -- a prototypical AOL user -- wouldn't have a clue as to what to do with an iPhone. Arrington's willingness…

No, its more of a statement to the power of Apple's marketing and trends. The BB Bold vs. iPhone 3G is pretty telling - the Bold was announced a month before the 3G iphone, but is only to be released a few weeks from now. Meanwhile, Apple went ahead and released their product with piss poor battery life and according to many users, unstable software, often unresponsive UI etc. When the Bold comes out it won't have th…

For people who aren't already using a BlackBerry, the Bold just doesn't even seem like a competitor. I'll be a first-time smartphone buyer shortly, and it's difficult to see why I'd want to buy a handheld computer with such a tiny screen. I'm far more likely to want to browse the web and watch video on my smartphone than type a novel, so a separate keyboard is pretty unimportant, but the screen is one of the most visible and important parts of a first impression, and the iPhone seems to have a bigger screen than anything competing with it. Even with the problems I'm hearing it has, it's hard to justify dropping money on something with a significantly smaller viewing area.
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