Live data from Hacker News

Observation-based early-warning signals for a collapse of the Gulf Stream

theguardian.com

51–60 of 441 posts

Re: Observation-based early-warning signals for a collapse of the Gulf Stream

#51

Makes me look back at the last 20-30 years of discourse in the United States and let out a deep sigh. Had CFC propellants emerged today, I highly doubt the U.S. would have been a signatory to the Montreal Protocol — just to own the libs or avoid hindering the market by a boogeyman of 0.0001% overhead or some other form of contrarian political identity differentiation.

Yeah - even where I am there has been a pull back on stuff. We've got a ban on plastic straws (ie, you can't use one then throw it in the trash in the resteraunt) to help save nature. But you go outside and the amount of trash just blowing into the water from various encampments near the water is just nuts. Their are claims of concerns about carbon emissions, but absolute opposition to any work around nuclear. If car…

> Their are claims of concerns about carbon emissions, but absolute opposition to any work around nuclear. If carbon emissions was the or a very important issue, you'd be going full out on lots of ideas.

While I agree nuclear is the right way to go... it's frankly too late to put all our eggs in that basket. It takes over a decade just to turn on a new plant in the US due to all the regulations. We can work to improve that situation, but at the end of the day, solar and wind can be deployed much faster and at a lower cost.

> I'd love to see more problem solving from the left, rather than the sort of in your face bans on things.

I'd humbly submit you aren't listening the left arguments if you think they aren't putting out solutions.

Most people I know on the left deride paper straws just as much as you do.

The serious solutions that have been proposed are things like carbon taxes, subsidies for renewable installation and electric vehicles, ending subsidies on the fossil fuel industry. Regulations decreasing allowable fuel consumption from vehicles.

These are serious solutions that would have major positive impacts.

And, as you can imagine, they've all been met with total opposition from the Republicans. Ranging anywhere from outright denying that climate change is real to lying about the impacts of renewable tech or fear mongering over things like "How can we recycle every part of the solar panel! Guess we better just burn oil instead".

Nuclear is a fine solution, it isn't the only solution and it is absolutely more of a long term solution until regulations around new plants ease up.

In the mean time, the best actions we can take today are making it more expensive to release greenhouse gasses in the first place through taxation and subsidizing greenhouse gas free power generation.

Re: Observation-based early-warning signals for a collapse of the Gulf Stream

#52

After seeing the global chaotic response to COVID I'm convinced that climate change will not receive a meaningful response until it is way too late. It apparently needs to hit the majority of the planet right in the gut (and then preferably the wealthy part) for people to get off their collective asses and do something about it. I'm just about ready to pack it in and hope the next generation is smarter than this one…

In fairness, we did get vaccines ready nearly from the get go.

Re: Observation-based early-warning signals for a collapse of the Gulf Stream

#54
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah - even where I am there has been a pull back on stuff. We've got a ban on plastic straws (ie, you can't use one then throw it in the trash in the resteraunt) to help save nature. But you go outside and the amount of trash just blowing into the water from various encampments near the water is just nuts. Their are claims of concerns about carbon emissions, but absolute opposition to any work around nuclear. If car…

Trash from encampments is negligible when you realize how many plastics are just dumped into the ocean

If you consider how much refuse you generate per day per household member - and then consider that an encampment has next to no sanitization infrastructure, It becomes obvious that the encampment will generate orders of magnitude more waste in the ocean per capita vs. ordinary households.

I wouldn't be surprised if the litter ratio was 10,000:1 or more.

Re: Observation-based early-warning signals for a collapse of the Gulf Stream

#55
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream

> The warm water and temperature contrast along the edge of the Gulf Stream often increase the intensity of cyclones, tropical or otherwise.

There should be less quantity and intensity of storms in the Atlantic, in the event this takes place.

Re: Observation-based early-warning signals for a collapse of the Gulf Stream

#56
post #36

I often hear that as individuals we can't really be held responsible for climate change and that instead we should look to our government to impose laws that restrict carbon output. This made me curious: what is the "fair" amount of carbon dioxide that the average individual can emit? According to this article[1][2] published in Nature it looks like the answer is 1.61 metric tons of CO2/year. That strikes me as close…

> That strikes me as close-to-impossible for industrialized nations to achieve. A round-trip flight from NYC to SF emits 1.5 metric tons per passenger. In order to reach 1.61 metric tons an individual would not be able to own a gas-powered car, could not regularly consume meat, could not live in remote areas only visitable by plane etc. So? > Many things people don't even consider "luxuries" (like visiting family ove…

No one except loonies see "You can't own a car, consume meat live anywhere but NYC and can't visit your family 5 states over" and are okay with it.

Re: Observation-based early-warning signals for a collapse of the Gulf Stream

#57
post #52

After seeing the global chaotic response to COVID I'm convinced that climate change will not receive a meaningful response until it is way too late. It apparently needs to hit the majority of the planet right in the gut (and then preferably the wealthy part) for people to get off their collective asses and do something about it. I'm just about ready to pack it in and hope the next generation is smarter than this one…

In fairness, we did get vaccines ready nearly from the get go.

The science and tech is usually always there to tackle problems. It's the political will and policymaking ability which pulls things back.

Re: Observation-based early-warning signals for a collapse of the Gulf Stream

#58

I sure hope Western Europe likes it cold. Paris is on roughly the same latitude of Quebec city.

Isn't this basically what caused the last ice age? The gulf stream is effectively the only thing keeping places like Ireland and England relatively mild given their latitude.

You might be thinking of the Younger Dryas - which was a relatively short cooling in places like the UK with some re-glaciation here in Scotland:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Younger_Dryas

Re: Observation-based early-warning signals for a collapse of the Gulf Stream

#59
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trash from encampments is negligible when you realize how many plastics are just dumped into the ocean

Not where I live. The trash from encampments is pulled up and down the shoreline (tons of bird and other life) with every tide. It's noticeable. Tons of plastic in ocean for sure, but less noticeable unless you are in asia where the rivers and coastal areas are crushed with trash at times. It's just weird our focus is on a plastic straw being disposed of in a restaurant. I mean, the amount of plastic bags in the ship…

Apparently the type of plastic is quite relevant; but whether straws are worse than air-bags for shipping... who knows.

But perhaps more relevantly, however unsightly this whole plastic soup is, I kind of doubt the impact is anywhere near that of climate change, and I'm concerned these kind of issues serve as a kind of feel-good distraction.

Maybe that's too pessimistic; maybe the world can deal with plastic soup and climate change and forever chemicals and animal welfare and whatever at once. I'm just not very confident of that.

Re: Observation-based early-warning signals for a collapse of the Gulf Stream

#60
post #52

After seeing the global chaotic response to COVID I'm convinced that climate change will not receive a meaningful response until it is way too late. It apparently needs to hit the majority of the planet right in the gut (and then preferably the wealthy part) for people to get off their collective asses and do something about it. I'm just about ready to pack it in and hope the next generation is smarter than this one…

In fairness, we did get vaccines ready nearly from the get go.

Sure, science was never the problem.
Post reply on HN